S01 Ep21: Why Networking is Out & Authentic Relationship Building is In with Jeff Borschowa

EntrepreneurshipRelationships

Apr 4

Written By Melissa Wesner

Networking is about relationship building, and despite our best efforts, relationship building is not always what happens after attending networking events. In this episode, you’ll get to listen in on my conversation with Jeff Borschowa whose entire business has been built around building authentic professional relationships. He’s also big on Tech and has some big ideas on AI and ways that it can be used….you guessed it….authentically!
In this episode, you’ll hear us talk about:
• Reasons traditional networking doesn’t always work (despite our best efforts)
• Building authentic professional relationships
• Meetings Jeff is willing to get up at 2 AM for
• Ways that relationship building for business has been done on the golf course (for years!)
• Jeff’s thoughts on use of AI and authentic voice
If you’re looking for a new approach to professional relationship building, tune in to this episode.
Follow Jeff Borschowa:
Jeff’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-borschowa
Jeff’s Podcast: www.globalwellnesshq.com/podcast
Website: www.globalwellnesshq.com
Melissa Wesner (00:02.19)
Hello and welcome back to the Dreaming and Doing Podcast. I am here today with Jeff Borschowa. He is a Renaissance man who loves knowledge and community. And my guess is that you are wondering, what exactly does that mean, that he's a Renaissance man? So I am going to welcome Jeff and I am going to let him tell us a little bit more about him and his background.
Awesome. Well, first of all, Melissa, thank you for having me on your show. I usually use the word polymath, but most people don't know what that means. So I realized at some point I'm a Renaissance man. And all that means is I'm curious about the world around me and I love things. I love playing with words. I love building relationships. So I learn from the people I hang out with. And really that's kind of
Um, my job, if you will, I'm a ghost writer. So for me, I think it behooves me to be very curious about the world around me. And, you know, one of my favorite topics is artificial intelligence, um, building community, writing books, podcasting. Um, most people I know they're, they're really good at one thing, but I'm really good at probably five things and I can't ever pick my favorite. So I jumped back and forth and.
The beautiful thing about being curious about the world is I bring really bizarre perspectives back to my day job. So that's that's my version. I was trying to figure out what Jeff is and what he does. And I realized, you know, I'm big fan of the Masters, you know, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo. And I've spent most of my life studying them. So I realized I'm probably one of them.
Yes, well, I'm really looking forward to our conversation today because we're going to talk about one of the things that I really love, which is community and relationships. And something that I know you love that is really a hot topic right now, which is AI. Absolutely. And interestingly enough, you love building authentic relationships and community. And we were introduced by someone that we both know.
Melissa Wesner (02:26.254)
Our friend Katie said, hey, Melissa, you need to meet Jeff. And when I looked at your information online, sure enough, there was that you love building relationships and community. It ended up being the thing that we talked about when we first met. So tell me a little bit about your love of building community and why you think it's important to build authentic relationships in business. Absolutely. And that's a wonderful question.
A lot of people ask me, how did I get started in that? And I realized it's just been there. It was like I was born with it. I've always loved bringing people together. And really, really simple example. When I was a kid, you'd have somebody who had a baseball, somebody who had a bat, somebody who had gloves, bring them together. All of a sudden we're playing baseball. And honestly, I was always bored. I needed something to do. So for me,
I realized that bringing people together was a great way to do it. And so it took me years and I'm going to credit Bob Berg and his book, The Go Giver. I read it and there's a character in there called The Connector and I didn't sleep for days. I was like, oh my God, that's who I want to be. How do I become that person? And I've spent pretty much every waking moment since then figuring out how do I get better at networking? How do I get better at connecting?
Um, how do I manage the relationships? And so to me, that was kind of where it all started. And what I realized, and I'm going to, this is a terrible thing to admit, but for a while I tried to do traditional marketing and sales and I learned how to overcome objections. I learned all of that really manipulative stuff. And I'm like, this just feels yucky. I don't want to do it. And what I realized was that.
My people are generally professionals. They're accountants. They don't want to get better at marketing and sales. And I looked at how I'd been successful in life and how they're successful. And the commonality was time and time again, building authentic relationships. And I talked to a lot of people who say, well, I went networking and, you know, I handed out 50 cards and I didn't get a single client. Your, your ideas are terrible. And I'm like,
Melissa Wesner (04:51.502)
No, it's your execution. And you and I are a perfect example. Katie and you had a conversation and she said, oh my God, you got to meet Jeff. And she came to me and said, you're going to love Melissa. And the reality is you and I connected because of our connection around Katie. So to me, it's smarter and lazier at the same time to build relationships that become business.
As opposed to everybody shows up and says, Hey, Melissa, I got widgets. How many would you like? Well, none. But if you ask me, you know, do you know anybody who wants widgets? Maybe the answer is, yeah, go talk to my neighbor. But too many people want to sell. And if you don't buy on the first conversation, they move on. Whereas I have conversations with people that I've known for decades and you know, whenever they change jobs or I change opportunities.
It's always a chance to reconnect and say, okay, who do I know that needs to be, you know, for example, us having this conversation, who do I know that needs to meet Melissa and be on her show? Yes. And I'm wondering, because as you were talking, networking and networking events were totally jumping into my head as you were talking. And then you were like, yes, and networking events, for example, right? Because I think about that and how.
the intention sometimes of networking or networking events is to build relationships and yet the, I think the authentic relationships that you're talking about don't always get formed in that way. And so I'm wondering for you as you think about the cultivation or efforts to cultivate authentic relationships, what are some things that you have seen really work? Awesome.
Um, and, and I'm going to give you a really terrible example because it kind of highlights it. A lot of people think networking and you know, it's kind of like speed dating. They got to talk to as many people as they can. And yet if you're looking for deep, meaningful relationship, you're not going to find it at speed dating. I'm sorry. You may build one out of it, but that's the problem. People show up thinking they're going to find the right person, but they're looking in the wrong place.
Melissa Wesner (07:09.23)
And so I think that the biggest tool is, you know, looking at the person you're connecting with as a human being first. And that's where I always start is, you know, what are you interested in? Where are you? What, you know, and my favorite question is, you know, whatever somebody is, how did you become that person? What what choices led you here? Why, you know?
Why did you decide to become an accountant? Why did you decide to become a counselor? I can't stress enough, but the question mark is the most important tool for building relationships. You ask questions and the other part, listen to the answer. Yes. Well, and I actually, I love that example, right? Because I love hosting gatherings. Like I'm regularly like offering opportunities for people in our community to come together and.
Just last night was one of those gatherings that I hosted. And I was actually getting a little bit nervous. Like it just seemed like things weren't panning out. I had people who are, someone emailed me earlier on in the week. We already had a very small group and someone was like, ah, I'm not going to be able to make it cause this two other people messaged me. They were sick. And so I was like, Oh man, we're going to be a really small group. Like, should I even go ahead and do this? Should I just go ahead and cancel? Like, I don't want people to feel.
because it's a small group that we're having. But honestly, at the end of the night, I told my partner, I said, I think that that was one of my favorite gatherings. We had only four people, but we got to sit down, buy a fire, have a hot beverage. And we actually got to have meaningful conversation about our families, our work, things like workplace harassment and bullying. And so it just felt really different than the speed dating that you're talking about.
And I think that's, you know, the reality is there's a place for everything. And, you know, I'll give you another real example for me. You know, it's almost every industry you go to the big conferences and all the people, you know, go sit and listen to the speaker. And then, you know, they rush past the the booths of the vendors so they get to the food and then they rush back and nobody's everybody so focused on where they're supposed to be and what they're supposed to do.
Melissa Wesner (09:32.366)
Nobody's having conversations. So one of the things I do when I go to a conference I'll skip a session tell anyone and I'll go hang out in the vendor hall and I meet all of the vendors because one of the things I realized is that if they're there they care about the audience and Really, they're more likely to know what's going on with that particular industry than anyone else in the building
maybe even more so than the speakers up on stage. So I always do that. And then when there's breaks, I'll run into somebody I know and I'll say, oh my God, you need to come over here. You were telling me yesterday how much this problem bothered you. I'll drag them over to the vendor and I'll say, look, this person solves your problem. Just talk. And I realized just that little change, skipping one session, because at the end of the day you get
thousands of things thrown at you I made a difference to my friend and to the vendor Yeah, and again connecting. Yeah, and you know you do that ten times over That's a pretty productive event because I've met and gotten to know ten vendors and I've added value to ten people that I already know and And I think that's the other piece. I'll say is a lot of people seem to think
that networking is somehow I win, you lose. But the reality is, you know, Katie connected us and every time you and I connect, we both recognize Katie for bringing us together. So her value goes up in both of our world because of that. Yes, I know. We're going to have to share this with her. Hi, Katie. So Jeff, you have an international audience.
You know, and during the pandemic, of course, there's conversation about things like what is better in person or in line for relationships and all of that. And I'm wondering when you're working with an international community, how do you maintain relationships when you're working with people from all over? That's a great question. And just for the record, I'm really, really stubborn. And when COVID hit and the world shut down,
Melissa Wesner (11:49.166)
people told me networking is dead. And they also said you can't network on zoom or online on video conference. And the stubborn little child in me said, watch me. And so I think I pivoted faster than a lot of the big organizations just because I can. But I immediately and I went wide at first, which by the way, there's challenges there.
I've learned there's certain places in the world I don't need to be. I don't need to be in every time zone, for example. But what I did find was that being virtual really expanded who I could talk to and really what it comes down to is basic relationship building. It's about connection, communication, curiosity. So I just started hosting at one point I had 10 different
networking groups across 10 different platforms. And what I ended up doing was adding more people, adding more people. What I found was adding more people, it kind of got big and out of hand and unwieldy. And then what I started to do was fine tune it and narrow down. So the big thing for me was with COVID, as I mentioned, people's
told me networking is dead, you can't network online. And I wanted to prove them wrong. So I went overboard and I'm not kidding, Melissa, I had calls in every time zone imaginable, which by the way, eventually gets exhausting. But what I realized was I had a theory that, and there's no science for this. I believe video conference calls was 80 % as effective as in person.
I'm happy to say I was wrong. I think it's more like 99 .9%. Some of my best friends now and people I've connected with over the last three years, I have never met them and I don't know that I ever will just because of where they are. But the biggest thing for me was realizing, and this is sort of a business thing, but it's also a human thing.
Melissa Wesner (14:07.726)
People just want to feel part of something. They want to belong. They want to feel connected. So I focused on ways to bring people together, to add value, to add conversations. And one of my favorite things, and I have a few connecting networking buddies who say, oh, you're doing it wrong, but it works for me, is I'll always ask a question that's personal first. So instead of...
You know, people getting up and saying, oh, I'm a therapist. I'm an accountant, whatever. I always ask them, you know, to tell us a fun fact about themselves that, you know, they're proud of, but nobody else knows about. Like I get them to brag a little. I get them to share something. And really, instead of getting to know one another's businesses, we first get to know one another's personalities. And what I realized in.
You know, there's a lot of lessons I've learned, but certain people make really good connectors. Certain people don't. And for me, a big part of it was just recognizing that connectors, people who do it naturally, they're my people. I want to hang out with them all day long. I started teaching people how to network and that drained me because it was always.
Don't put that in your mouth. You know, it was like trying to teach a three year old to do math. You're going to be frustrated. So I stopped teaching networking and I just started hanging out with networkers. And one of the beautiful things I've realized is that like attracts like. So when you meet somebody fabulous like Katie, who's very giving and open and wants to connect people, guess who she knows? People who like to connect and get to know people. So.
Once I kind of overcame that, then we got to talking business and it is amazing because now I focus only on North America because I'm tired of, you know, I was up at one point, I think I had a networking call in China at 2 a .m. and I'm like, what am I doing? So I now focus on North America and...
Melissa Wesner (16:25.742)
To me, that's way more productive. And, you know, for someone like yourself who, you know, you're licensed in a state and you can practice in a state, it is way more useful for you to meet people in your state. I still, and I have different groups that I'm part of. You know, one group I'm part of, it's a global group and we, we alternate, you know, who's going to get up at two in the morning, you know, but the right group it's, it's worthwhile being part of.
But for me, I have one group, for example, down in Atlanta and the focus is on elder care and serving the great community. That's a fun one because you can bring together, you know, psychologists, therapists, counselors, and you learn a lot about each of them. And one of the things I find fascinating is, you know, for example, a chiropractor in Atlanta who serves.
people over the age of 65, they're wasting all this time and energy marketing, trying to find gray haired people that want their services. And I have a friend who runs a senior center who their complaint is their people can't leave the building to go find these services. What if somebody came in and visited and did assessments on site? And so I love connecting people like that, that, you know, for some reason,
You know, the chiropractor driven past this building a thousand times and never once stopped to say, Hey, what, what challenges do your people have? Uh, you know, they don't necessarily drive. They, they don't have mobility and you know, little thing like, let's create a community shuttle bus. Well, and I'm sitting here imagining that you are getting up at two in the morning or have gotten up at two in the morning. And I, I don't know about you, but I,
really love my sleep and I'm sitting here going, who's in that networking group? Like who would I be willing? Like who or what would I be willing to get out of bed for at two in the morning and like look presentable on screen? See, I'm washing where so there's no time to prep. I can just drives my wife nuts because I'll wake up at 10 to two and you know, brush my teeth and have a drink and I'm on. But you know, the reality is.
Melissa Wesner (18:51.982)
the right people, it's totally worthwhile. You know, and I hang out with people where, you know, not just networking to close deals, but we're networking, you know, for example, I'm working on a project, bringing people together to help with fighting antisemitism. So those kind of calls are worth getting up for in the night.
I love that example. So I wanna pivot a little bit and talk about the other thing that I know you're really passionate about. You love technology and also you are really interested in AI. So before I ask you some of my other questions, AI as you know, it's been like a hot topic. Some people are like, yes, we can work smarter, we can work easier. And some people are like, this is like a doomsday type thing. Like this is not.
Good, it's gonna take us down a bad road. Why do you love AI? I love that question. And for the record, up till about six months ago, I was in the Skynet camp. I was convinced that AI was gonna destroy humanity. And then honestly, I realized if humanity is going to be destroyed, we'll do it ourselves. We don't need help. But the aha moment for me, and I think I heard somebody say it yesterday very well.
They said, you know, everybody's worried that AI is going to take my job, but the reality is it's the person who knows how to use AI that's going to take your job. And about three, four months ago, I realized how powerful AI can be. And specifically, I'm a big fan of something called ChatGPT. It is a language. I don't know that anyone has ever heard of that before.
I took a while to get on the bandwagon, but I figured either I get on the wagon or I go under it and get run over. Um, but what I realized and I realized my attitude towards AI was really fueled by popular beliefs and common things. And the reality for me, and this is going to sound very ageist, um, there was a lot of 18 year olds going on to LinkedIn and YouTube and Facebook and saying, here's how to make millions using AI.
Melissa Wesner (21:11.918)
And I realized I couldn't get my head around it because it was all garbage. And I was like, what is this nonsense? And by the way, the number one way to get rich with AI is to teach people how to get rich with AI. And that's one of the problems with AI is if your life experience is zero and you say, hey, AI helped me get rich, it's going to tell you what.
all of the noise is about. So think about all that noise on YouTube, on TikTok. Everybody under the age of 20 is saying, you got to be on AI. And so it averages out and says, here's what you do. And I was like, AI is garbage. And then I went, wait a minute, that's a big statement. So I sat down with it and started playing with it. And it turns out I'm neurodiverse. And it was like talking to my best friend. I was all of a sudden,
And yes, I'm aware it's a computer. It doesn't have feelings, but it communicates very abruptly and bluntly the way I do, but also very technically correct. And if you don't have my attention, you're going to get a random hallucination answer, which is what AI does. But what I realized is a lot of people were showing up to AI and saying, hey, write me an article on this topic. And because they're not experts in that topic,
whatever AI spits out the first time they go, wow, that's genius. And then they go and post it on social and they say, Hey everybody, look at how smart I am. Now you, for example, Melissa, let's pretend Jeff is an amateur AI. And I go in and say, write me an article on brain spotting. Well, it might write me one that's a third correct, a third and a third, holy crap, that is dangerously wrong. But
me not knowing what to do, I'm going to look at it and go, wow, that's great. And I'm going to post it. You'd look at it and go, oh my God, no. So then you'd ask it questions. You'd clarify. You'd massage it. You'd put your personal and professional skills into it. What that does, and this is where I started to get really excited, is it becomes like a bionic brain and it really gives you super strength, super powers, because now you're amplifying genius.
Melissa Wesner (23:33.038)
So that's what I realized was that AI is just an amplifying force. So if you're crazy and a little scattered and you don't know anything, it's gonna come across as really loud, really crazy, really scattered. Whereas if you're brilliant and you're really good at what you do, it's gonna amplify that brilliance. So to me, it was a slow journey, but once I figured out,
You don't get to the good stuff until about the sixth seventh round of questions And most people I know give up after two Yeah Well, and i'm sitting here kind of laughing in my brain as you're talking about all these people like putting like talking about getting rich off chat You know chat gbt or a you know ai or how to get rich i'm sitting here going You're apparently looking up the wrong stuff there melissa on chat gbt. Maybe that's what you need to be looking up so
Just give me a little chuckle, but I want to go back a little bit to conversation you and I had recently. We were meeting to record a podcast episode and we ended up chatting away. I said, well, Hey, Jeff, you know, what's been going on with you? And your response to me was, Oh, well, you know, actually I think I launched a billion dollar business today. And I was like, Jeff, that's a really confident statement to make.
And so I'm wondering if you would share a little bit about what you've been up to, you know, getting back to this love of AI. Well, I love that you remember that. And it's kind of funny because that particular week, I think there was two or three billion dollar ideas in my head and what I realized. And this is as we get going in this new, you know, we're going through a new Renaissance where.
You know, it was the digital revolution. And now I think we're getting back to knowledge. And I think that's what a lot of people, everybody wants that easy button or the shortcut. And one of the challenges with the world today, if I may be, you know, a little bit philosophical is that everybody's shouting and nobody's listening. And that's Facebook. I'm sorry, but.
Melissa Wesner (26:00.718)
Any social media platform is literally a three year old going, look at me, look at me. And what I realized was that the loudest people have the least to say because they got time to do videos on Tik TOK, for example. Um, so one of the ideas I have, and I want to democratize the acquisition of knowledge, um, our old, you know, it's kind of ironic that the original university.
was this place where people gathered to think and, you know, it was kind of, you know, if you go back to ancient Greece, it was sort of for the people by the people, you know, the philosopher sat around and shared their stories. And then at some point, somebody said, oh, we can monetize this. And, you know, the modern university was born where it's all of a sudden these little, you know, enclaves of knowledge and, you know, it's a fortress and you got to pay a fortune to get in. So one of my.
my passion projects is creating artificial intelligence data banks that bring together people. Um, and I'll use a really, really extreme example. I guarantee right now we have the knowledge to cure cancer. The problem is it's protected in little pockets and you know, one person has 1%, somebody has 3%. Nobody's looking at the whole thing going crap. We solved this decade ago.
I guarantee we know the answer. What AI does, and it does really well, is it aggregates data from different, and the more different the better, you know, behavioral economics, you know, psychology, diet, nutrition, but somewhere in that mixture of knowledge, AI is really good at aggregating and about filtering and sorting and finding patterns.
that you or I would never see in a lifetime because, you know, it's thousands and thousands of data points. But what AI is really good at is saying, well, you know, let's say we have 10 experts who are studying cancer. You can look at it and say, here's where they overlap. Here's where they're wildly different. In this case, they got results in the lab doing this over here. And it'll say, what if we brought together
Melissa Wesner (28:25.454)
researcher one and researcher two. Now the problem is in medical, big pharma is gonna want to say, well, let's monetize that. If the cure for cancer is eating a toadstool, they're gonna buy all the toadstools and figure out how to monetize it. But the reality is I truly believe if we bring in the best and the brightest minds,
we can solve problems that have been plaguing us for decades or centuries. Yeah, I am thinking about how big the impact would be just with the example that you gave with cancer. Yeah. And you know, the other one, and I watch really strange things. My wife is embarrassed when I admit this, but there's a show. I can't remember the name of it, but it's about I think it's called the Science Fair series.
And I was watching it and they have 30 million kids around the planet who compete in local science fairs to come to this big national event. And it's like the Olympics for us nerdy people. And I was watching it going, oh my God, this is genius. But what I realized was out of 30 million kids, something like 101 prizes and they got scholarships to universities and stuff, which left over 29 million kids.
Completely that's it done moving on and you know, there was kids in Africa. There was a young lady who was turning Reed marshes into ethanol gas because the normal way they do it is through Sugarcane and sugar cane they had a shortage and then they had a fuel shortage and she said well Identical, you know, the sugar content is identical. What if we took this abundant?
marsh reed and turned it into fuel. Well, she didn't win, so she's not going to get next funding. But my aha moment was we can take a database and have each of the students contribute their research because one of the biases is either to solve, it's to solve problems facing humanity. You know, there's a lot of environmental work that could be gathered. There's a lot of medical stuff. And yes.
Melissa Wesner (30:47.726)
High school kids are curing cancer or working on curing it. But my thought was, what would the world be like if those 30 million kids could draw on each other as resources rather than each kid individually on their own? Yeah. Now, the other thing that I think is interesting about what you are talking about, thinking about is, you know, sometimes someone's like, oh, you know what, wouldn't it be great if this.
Right. But they don't actually have the know -how to do the thing or to make that thing happen. You have actually gone beyond ideating and thinking about this topic. You've actually created a system that you're testing to do this, not just like, well, that'd be a nice idea if only someone somewhere in the world would do it. Like you actually have the tech knowledge and understanding and have been putting some things into motion.
Well, it's funny, I like to joke that I'm naive enough to believe I can change the world and I'm stubborn enough that I will. And I've always been, when somebody says why, my question is always why not? And what I love about the world I'm in today and my network is it's not a question of if something's possible, it's who in my network can help me make it possible.
And so that's another thing I'm using AI and this really baffles people, but I'm using AI to track who I know and I'm using it to help me find connections and remind me to connect with people. But what I found was with AI and this wouldn't have been possible six months ago, a year ago.
I can use it to take, you know, I'm a visionary and I love having my head in the clouds and I love daydreaming and thinking about what's possible. But what I'm finding AI is really good at helping me is find the experts that are already doing the things that I need for the project I'm working on. And then it helps me figure out how do I connect with these people, you know, and again, basic relationship skills.
Melissa Wesner (33:07.694)
The more you know about somebody and the more curious you are, the more they want to get to know you. So for me, I found it just, you know, again, it was an accident one day. I was like, oh, what does this button do? And next thing I know, I was training my own AI model and I'm like, wait, I can do that. So. Yes. Well, and you're making me think of two things. So one, have you ever read the book, Who Not How? I, um,
have at least one in every room in the house, but yes. Yes, I'm absolutely thinking of that book right now. If someone has not read it, it's a good one. But also it's making me think about a friend of mine who's a great human, great business owner, and he's been posting videos on social media lately. And he was talking about this idea he had and how he needed an introduction to somebody.
who had a connection to this company who does the thing that he was interested in. He's like, but I don't know anybody. This company is like very niche and you know, there's not very many of them. I don't know and I don't think I know of anyone, you know, who has a connection there. He's like, I just started telling everybody, everybody in my circle. I just started telling them, Hey, I have this idea and I really want to meet someone from this company. Sure enough, they were on a call with other people and they were like,
Oh, wait, are you talking about this company in this location? What? Oh, yeah, I know that person and got him connected to the person that he needed to connect with to share his big idea with. And that's the power of those relationships. Like, and that's the, you know, I know somebody who in a community, they went across the city and they went to every networking event in the city once. And they came back to me and said, networking doesn't work.
And I'm like, I don't know what you just did, but it's not networking. And that's the thing. It's about quality, not quantity. And I would rather know. And, you know, this is my example. But if you think about whether you believe in Jesus as a savior or as a human being, he had 12 followers, his disciples. And today there's a billion Christians.
Melissa Wesner (35:27.118)
You know, everybody's thinking, oh, I need the billion followers. No, no, no, you need 12. And that's to me. I would rather have 12 people that care deeply about me and want me to succeed. And by the way, that's the language. It's Napoleon Hill. I follow the mastermind concept. But the idea is you can only believe and achieve so much if you try to experience the world by yourself.
Whereas when you surround yourself with people who know and like you and trust you, they're out there thinking about you even when they're not with you. And that's, you know, traditional networking is about, you know, I have a stack of business cards that thick. I can't care about that many people in a moment. Whereas if I have a stack that thick, I go, Oh yes, you need to meet this person. And that's the beautiful thing.
When you start to hang out with people who build relationships first, they know other people who build relationships first. And, you know, it's amazing because for me, if I need something, it usually takes my network about maximum 48 hours to find that something. And I'm not kidding. I'll give you a very weird example. I had somebody who was, he'd won a trip.
to some little country I've never heard of. It's like off the coast of Africa. I can't even remember. It's like by Madagascar. Seychelles, I think it is. Anyways, he said, I'm going to Seychelles in two weeks. Do you know anyone there? And he said it half joking, but it was almost like a joke. But he was also sort of saying, yeah, you don't know everyone. 48 hours, I had him connected to the head of the tourism board on the island.
And he was like, okay, I give up. But you know, again, that was a really weird, really unusual conversation. But when you start to build the, and you know, I love the who, not how, because the kind of people who read that book also are about impact and about, you know, believing in making better future. And, you know, you and I talked about having a retreat in Costa Rica and you know, it's.
Melissa Wesner (37:50.766)
people who focus on who not how tend to have bigger dreams, bigger goals. And once you reach those people, they love, you know, they're, it's kind of like they're adrenaline junkies. They've climbed all the mountains and they're like, okay, what now? Oh, Melissa needs to meet somebody. Who can I connect her to? So yeah.
Well, and I'm glad you said that because I was actually thinking about the retreat as we're talking about relationship building and things like that. And, um, you know, I think a lot of times in business, we think about, well, you can join an association where you can go and meet people and network like the traditional networking, bring your business cards, go to the networking events. We need a lot of people shake a lot of hands, but sometimes you don't meet people. Right. Um, and I think, you know, over the past year, I've heard someone I follow, they're like,
you can find a bunch of like men on the golf course and what are they doing on the golf course? They're doing business. They're doing business while they're building relationships, right? And so I think sometimes, especially for women, right? I think women sometimes feel like if they're not working or doing something that is, I don't know, quote unquote, productive, like that, like to go golfing, let's say like, I don't know how many women are like, that would be my ideal thing to do necessarily, not that women don't love golf.
Some women don't love golfing, but it probably wouldn't be like my choice. But again, it's quality time, it's having fun, it's relationship building, and it's a thing that people have done for a very long time. And yet I think for some of us, that feels like, I don't wanna say like not work, but not like the right kind of relationship building. And I think for even like on retreats, the...
I think of retreats as incubators for relationships, right? Because when you're spending all day, several days together, having unique experiences with people, you're really getting to know them. I guess I'm wondering for, you know, something like that where those are legitimate ways to build relationships and people are feeling guilty, like as though it should be hard and it should be traditional. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on our mindset about that.
Melissa Wesner (40:10.03)
Well, it's absolutely fascinating. And by the way, I've studied golf because I'm fascinated by it as a networking thing. And if you think about it, it's, it's slow. It takes a lot of time and it's expensive. But yet if you look over, you know, from like the fifties onwards, golf and networking and business have been so intertwined. And the reality is it's because it works.
And I think that's a friend of mine is a Navy veteran and he tells me all the time, the seals have this mantra that smooth is slow, slow is fast. And I think people mistake being busy with being productive. And, you know, I know my wife, she never sits still. She's all, I got to do this. I got to do that. And what I realized like golf, you can't rush it. It is what it is. It's it takes the time it takes.
And the time is the important piece. And honestly, if you think about it, Melissa, we live in this world where everybody's on their devices and everybody's on social media. We're not taking the time to stop and be with the person we're with. And, you know, I look around restaurants all the time and we're the weird family sitting there laughing and talking. And you look around and everybody like.
It's like the kids are texting mom and dad, asking them to pass the salt. And it's like, what happened to just talking? So I'm a fan of, and here's the secret. If you're not a golfer, don't golf to network because you'll be miserable, right? But the reality is, and by the way, the people you're with will be miserable. I've annoyed many a golfer because they dragged me along and I'm like, I hate golf and you know, but.
do the things you love to do, whether it's going shopping, going to a spa or going on a retreat and spending that slow quality time. A friend of mine wanted to prepare a retreat in Maui and everybody's like, oh, you should do it in Honolulu instead. You can do it on Waikiki and we can go shopping and we can do this.
Melissa Wesner (42:26.99)
problem with that sort of event. That's not a retreat. I don't know what you call it, but you're you're keeping the real world around you. So instead she moved it over to Maui and you know, which is kind of like in the middle of the wilderness and it's like a shuttle to get there. Like it's a it's a big deal to come and go. And I said, you know, you just want your people retreating and just spending the time. Um, I have lifelong friends that have made it retreats because.
there was built in meditation time, built in just, you know, everybody, we're going to sit by the pool and, you know, we're going to talk time. I think most people forget that what we're truly looking for as human beings is connection. So instead of giving them the distractions, you know, the, the other, you know, you go to Vegas and everybody wants to go drinking and whatever, um, you're not.
They're doing the thing you're there to be there for and you're not there with the people you're there So for me, I think it's it's about finding the things you love to do And then finding other people who love to do that thing with you as well Well one I am absolutely fascinated by the fact that you have studied golfing and relationship building I'm so fascinated. I'm so glad I just asked you that um because
You know, we got to hear that really great response from you. Oh my goodness. Can you hold that up so I can read the title?
Melissa Wesner (44:08.046)
I wrote a book on it.
Oh my goodness. This is my I'm a ghostwriter. This is one of my books. It's You Can't Shank a Putt by Bobby Aldrich. And that's the thing. And so one of the things we realized was if you want to golf and you want to network with golfers, you got to get good enough at golf that you don't annoy them, but not so good that you beat them. So.
Yes, golf fascinates me from a business point of view, just because no matter what's changed in the world, we still recognize golf as first and foremost, a networking business tool. This is absolutely going to be my favorite part of our entire conversation. I'll send you a copy of the book. I would love it. Well, Jeff, I want to be mindful of your time.
So I have two last questions for you. One, what is a big dream that you have? My big dream, and actually it's my mission, believe it or not, my goal for the next decade is I want to unequivocally prove that war is not financially viable and therefore as a species we should focus on peace. Love that.
And if anyone is listening, because you do a lot of things, right? Like writing, AI, relationship building, you have podcasts, plural. So if anyone is listening, how can they find you? I want to know how can they find you? And also, who do you need with some of these big projects that you're working on? Who do you need? Who are you looking for? I love it. So my home base for everything is is my website, which is Global Wellness HQ dot com.
Melissa Wesner (46:06.798)
Um, that's where people can find my, some of my podcasts. I don't bother putting all of them on the website. Um, but really truly LinkedIn is where I live and breathe. So if anybody wants to connect with me on LinkedIn, um, it's just my name, I think is the, it's LinkedIn dash whatever. Um, now who I need, I am, so my people identify as mavericks, visionaries and philanthropists.
So I'm always looking for people who self identify. Visionaries and I, we have the special conversation and they're truly, they know who they are. So I'm always looking to interview visionaries. And the beautiful thing is when I have them on the podcast, I love to connect them with people in my world. So my world is better for having met them. And I like to make sure their world is better for it as well. I love that.
So I'm hoping that the people you are looking for will find you. But thank you so much for sharing this information with us today. I loved our conversation and I hope that other people will find it valuable too. Well, thank you very much for having me. Always a pleasure to hang out with you and just have a conversation. So thank you.