S01 Ep06: When Burnout Unexpectedly Leads You to Pursue a New Dream with Gabrielle Juliano-Villani

EntrepreneurshipSelf-ImprovementEducation

Jan 23

Written By Melissa Wesner

Burnout has certainly been a hot topic over the past few years, and it’s a term that typically doesn’t have any positive associations with it. In this episode, however, you’ll hear Gabrielle Juliano-Villano, a licensed clinical social worker and entrepreneur share about her personal experiences with burnout while running her group therapy practice and how that experience led her to make impactful changes that led her to a whole new dream.
In this episode, you’ll hear Gabrielle talk about:
• Her personal experience with burnout as a group practice owner
• How burnout led her to sell her group practice
• How burnout led her to a new dream that allows for location independence and freedom to schedule her day according to her body’s own needs and preferences
• Life after burnout and how she uses her experience with burnout to help other therapists and entrepreneurs too!
Follow Gabrielle Juliano-Villani:
Instagram: @gjvconsulting
TikTok: @gabriellejulianovillani
Youtube: https://youtube.com/@gabriellejulianovillani
Etsy: https://gjvcconsulting.etsy.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/gabriellejulianovillani
Facebook: https://facebook.com/groups/createanabundantgrouppractice
Facebook: https://facebook.com/groups/medicareconsulting
www.gabriellejulianovillani.com
www.medicareconsultingfortherapists.com
FREE from Gabrielle: Therapist’s Guide to Financial Freedom
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (00:02.802)
Welcome back to the Dreaming and Doing podcast. You are in for a treat with our guest today. We're gonna be talking with Gabrielle Juliano-Villani, who is a licensed clinical social worker, consultant, coach, entrepreneur, and educator based in Florida. She specializes in stress, chronic health conditions, and trauma. And after scaling her group practice to seven figures and realizing her own burnout in 2021,
She sold her thriving group practice and made it her mission to educate others on the impact of stress on our bodies. So welcome, Gabrielle. I'm so glad you could be here with us today.
gabrielle (00:44.054)
Me too, thank you for having me. I'm excited to share all this with your listeners.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (00:50.542)
Yes, so you openly talk about your own experiences with burnout, burnout as you were running your practice, burnout in the process of selling. Talk with us a little bit about your experience with burnout and some of the things that you started to notice that made you aware that you were there.
gabrielle (01:10.358)
Yes, great question that people ask me all the time. Like, how did I know? And of course, this looks different for everybody. But what I really was like, there were two really big red flags actually. And the first one was that when I was in sessions or I was like doing stuff with my team, I was very apathetic and distracted. So I would be like,
47 more minutes. What are we gonna talk about for 47 more minutes? And I would, I just didn't care. I was like, I don't care. I don't hear the story anymore. I don't care what my team has to say. I just want to like burn this all down and like everybody leave me alone. So the apathy was huge and I always get really nervous when I share that because obviously being a therapist and a business owner, you need to care.
And so that's why it was a huge red flag that I didn't anymore. And that's why I did what I did to take care of it. And the second piece that was very telling to me was just every morning I. Felt angry and irritable and I had like a pit in my stomach and I felt dread. And I felt like I'm afraid to look at my phone and see who emailed me overnight. And I just.
didn't want to deal with it. And, you know, of course that bled over into not just my business, but my personal life too. And I was like, it was just kind of like, it clicked one morning. I was like, I don't wanna live like this anymore. I want to be happy and excited. I don't want to feel overwhelmed and cranky and snapping at everybody in my life. Like that is not how I wanna live. That's not.
being engaged or really living and enjoying.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (03:03.558)
Yes. And so I'm wondering before you had this aha moment, what were some of the maybe warning signs for lack of a better term? Like what were some of the signs along the way? Even if they're signs that you only recognized in hindsight.
gabrielle (03:20.97)
Yeah, I think a lot of them are in hindsight. I think part of my problem was that I had a lot of issues with people pleasing and being codependent and boundaries. And I would, you know, like I remember, and this is just a small thing, but it bled over again, like into all other areas, like.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (03:36.623)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (03:46.438)
My team was in Colorado and I had already moved to Florida and so I was two hours ahead. And my team would call me sometimes it would be like nine o'clock here and I'm like I don't know why you need to call me at 7 p.m mountain time but whatever. They would be like I need to talk to you about this client or this case and I'm already in like downtime. I'm already in my jammies on the couch watching Housewives like I don't want to hear about trauma right now.
But because I was like, this is what a good leader does, I need to be there for them, I let it happen. And it was a really small thing that I was actually talking about with, she's a friend. If she wasn't my friend, she would be my coach. And she was like, why are you letting them do that? Like, you need to be the boss and tell them no. And I was like, you're right. Like, nobody needs to call me in private practice. There's not really very many emergencies.
And these never were emergencies. And so I had to set that boundary and I did. I said, you guys, like, I don't, I can't, like my business hours are this and this. If it's a true emergency, you can call me. Otherwise send me an email because I'm not gonna check my email till the next day. And I was telling this whole story to one of my own consulting clients now who's struggling with the same thing. And she said, didn't they get mad at you? Were they mad at you that you did that?
I was like, no, actually they weren't. They seemed to respect me more because I was acting like the boss and setting boundaries. And I think that was just a lot of the problem from the beginning is that I didn't have the business training that I have now, didn't have it then. And so I would just let people walk all over me. I would bend over backwards to try and make them happy instead of viewing it.
in a framework of like, yes, I can help you, but it's not my job to bend over to your every whim and not everybody is gonna be a good fit for the practice. So I would like try and force it a lot of times and that caused me a lot of stress.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (05:57.834)
Yeah, and I like that connection that you're making between burnout and boundaries, right? Because I think that setting boundaries are so hard for so many people, right? Because we are afraid of how people are gonna respond to them and what they're gonna think once they're set.
gabrielle (06:13.27)
Absolutely, and it is it's still difficult. I even this week had something now in my new business where I was Working on a one-time project for somebody and they were being very Difficult and micromanaging me and you know, I'm a contractor. I'm like I'm gonna do it when within the time frame Like don't tell me how don't tell me what and the same friend was like just a reminder Gabrielle like you're in control
you can say no, you don't have to work with those kinds of people. And I did end up going through with it, but I had to set some clear boundaries with her on like what the project was going to look like and what the scope was going to look like. And that was a learning experience for me too. I had a lot of it in our contract, but there were like two missing pieces. And I'm like, I know for next time to make sure that those are really clear.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (07:07.59)
Yes, and right just that reminder of how we all need those friends in our small businesses who are going to hold us accountable or share their outside observations.
gabrielle (07:19.054)
Absolutely, it's huge because we're very isolated and it is lonely at the top and that is why we have masterminds and coaching and consulting and all of those things and it is so important because we get really narrowly focused sometimes and kind of like stuck in our ways and we don't see that maybe it's something very small.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (07:25.277)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (07:42.286)
that we could delegate or change that will end up to having a really big impact on our own stress levels and how we run our business efficiently.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (07:52.07)
Yes, whatever we're doing, that there are other possibilities as well.
gabrielle (07:56.046)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (07:57.91)
So I'm wondering, you know, when you recognized that you were feeling burned out, what are some of the steps that you took to remedy that or to work through that?
gabrielle (08:11.206)
It was a long journey. And I think that this all really started my burnout in like 2020, like a lot of us. And it's now the end of 2023. And I just feel like I'm starting to get on the other side of it and feeling better. So a lot of the things that I did were, well, I went on a retreat.
and I know that you know the power of retreats, so that was really helpful. And I did a lot of internal work about my values, what I wanted my life to look like, what success looked like to me, what my ideal day looked like to me. And I also, another piece of this too was,
I got diagnosed with ADHD kind of like in the middle of all of this and I think that really helped me actually understand how that played into a lot of this stuff because now I've also done a lot of deeper work on regulating my nervous system and what that looks like. And so I know that and again this is coming from a place of privilege because I've kind of designed my life like this but I dreamed it and here I am.
and I design my day how I need it to be for my energy levels. So I know that I don't like to start working before 10 a.m. because I like a slow morning, like to get up and either go for a walk or go to the gym and have my coffee. And then I kind of ease into the day because if I start working before 10, I feel really rushed. And then my whole day is rushed. I know that I also need things that are harder or take more.
of my energy or time to happen earlier on in the day, not at the end of the day. I also know that I'm introverted and so when I do things like this, like a podcast or a presentation, there's only gonna be one per day and I'm not gonna book something right after it because I need time to decompress. So having like those, some people call them intentional margins, like set into my day is huge for me because
gabrielle (10:21.086)
again seems really small but adds up to big impacts in my nervous system and how I manage my stress.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (10:29.79)
Yes. Now talk with me about, you have this moment where you realize unbrained doubt, you start taking some steps to remedy that, but it sounds like also during that time you decided to sell your practice. Talk with me about that moment of realizing unbrained doubt and the decision to sell.
gabrielle (10:49.314)
So I thought about selling probably like spring 2021. And I ran some numbers and didn't really seem worth it. So I put it on the back burner, but it kept like being in the back of my mind. Like maybe there is an out for this and I could change things. And when I was on vacation, I was in Hawaii and like July, 2021.
And I got a phone call from somebody and they said, we represent this business and they wanna acquire you. And I was like, this is totally spam. Like this is not real. And my same friend was like, actually that's how a lot of these things happen. She's in a different industry, which is helpful. And she's like, just call them back and see. And I did. And they were like, you know, it's legit. I researched it and we decided to move forward. And that's like very high level of course.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (11:29.63)
Hehehe
gabrielle (11:45.018)
I met with the buyer and we did more stuff beforehand, but I kind of waffled back and forth a lot because it was like my identity. And I was like, what am I gonna do now if I'm not billing in simple practice every day, looking at people's calendars and all of that stuff, those random admin tasks that I was still doing. And...
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (11:56.044)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (12:10.046)
I talked to two people, one was actually a mentor from the SBA and he said something that has always stuck with me. He said people sell for two reasons, for lifestyle or for money and you need to figure out what is the reason. And that was a big shift for me because I did think it was for money but I was like actually it's for lifestyle. This doesn't fit me anymore. This is not my path and this is not what I want to do.
And the second thing that really helped me when I would go back and forth was my broker who said, you know, think of your entire life. And this is just a stepping stone. This is just getting you to like the next level of where you want to be. Like you're two in the moment, which we tend to be therapists, right? It's like, you need to think about the big picture of your whole life and what you wanna do next and how this is gonna help you get there.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (12:52.118)
Hmm.
gabrielle (13:08.214)
So those two things really helped me shift my perspective that I didn't wanna hang on to this for another five years and kill myself to grow it, but that it was time for change. And I also felt that intuitively also.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (13:26.906)
Yeah, and I mean, there's so many really important nuggets in there. And I also just love that you're like, I ran the numbers and I put it on the back burner, you know, just didn't seem worth it. But it was always still there and it was there and it was there and it was there. And then one day someone just happens to call and it was like these two things lining up and eventually worked out. So I just love hearing how that happened.
I was also wondering, I think you just answered, is when you ran the numbers and you were like it's not worth it, what made you feel like it was worth it? And it sounds like lifestyle.
gabrielle (14:05.11)
Lifestyle and like I mean, of course I did make some money like not millions and millions but enough But did make it worth it to me to say like this is a payout for all the blood sweat and tears I've put into this and this is you know, like my next runway to do the next thing But yes, I think that just sitting down and being like I just I don't do this anymore. I don't want to manage people
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (14:09.381)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (14:18.477)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (14:32.763)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (14:33.382)
I don't want to deal with the stresses of hiring. There was a lot of uncertainty at that time too about Medicare covering telehealth, which is very specific, but it was specific to me because my group practice was largely telehealth and so it was a risk. And we had switched of course to the pandemic and I couldn't find anybody to hire who wanted to do in-person.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (14:44.202)
Hmm
gabrielle (14:57.006)
and the Sondermines and the Headways and the Almahs of the world were just kind of coming up and becoming more popular. So hiring was really difficult. And I also felt very tied down. I was still seeing a couple of clients and even just seeing those few clients was very draining for me. And I knew that I didn't wanna work in that way, like just hour to hour.
watching the clock, making money just in those like 60 minutes. I knew that there are other ways that I like to work that make me feel more energized where I can be creative and that's what I wanted to focus on.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (15:35.698)
Yeah, and I love that reminder to focus on the big picture, like in the grand scheme of our lives, knowing that our time on earth is limited, our time in general is limited, our energy, how do I wanna be spending my time? How do I wanna be spending my energy? Am I enjoying this? And if I'm not, how do I make decisions to kind of move myself in the direction that I want to be going? Yeah.
gabrielle (15:51.682)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (15:58.07)
Yep, exactly. Because I think that it that seems so simple, right? But like, I think a lot of us had that shift through the pandemic also, that like life is short. What do you want to do? Because you can do whatever you want. I've talked about this example on other podcasts before I'm going to share it again, because it's a really good one. And there is a girl that I went to, or actually worked with her in New York, and her sister
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (16:08.414)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (16:26.918)
is known as the hot rabbi and that's her job. She is the hot rabbi. Rich people in New York hire her and travel with her so that she can help with Shabbos and that's her job. And I'm like, that is the perfect example of like if you create your dream life, like she created her dream life. She's like, this is what I want to do. I want to be like a fashionista and I'm going to be hot.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (16:48.587)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (16:54.818)
and I'm still gonna be a rabbi and there she has her niche and she has her market for her niche. So that is just a great example of like you can do whatever you want. Life is short and you will actually make more money if you do things that you feel passionate about.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (17:06.3)
Yes.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (17:11.558)
Yes, I have so many questions.
gabrielle (17:14.796)
Hahaha!
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (17:17.866)
I'm holding the one on identity. I'm coming back to that one. I'm thinking about a conversation that I had with a friend and a colleague who also went through an experience of selling her business. And she sold her business during a time where she also, which is kind of burned out and like, I am ready to be done. And the interesting thing about my conversation with her.
is that she said, you know what, because I was where I was, I was just so happy about whatever thing people offered me in the selling process. And you've gone through the selling process, it sounds like you're very happy with where you are. How did you kind of navigate that, of like knowing that like I'm ready to be done? And also I wanna make sure that as we're navigating all of these very many stressful conversations that you have to have when selling,
that this is still working for me and I'm still able to advocate for myself and not just say yes because I'm eager.
gabrielle (18:17.654)
That's a really great question too. And I think having my friend slash mentor and a broker were key in those things because it is hard to get caught up in all of that. And it's also was hard for me, again, moment of vulnerability. Like I...
was in a room with like Harvard MBA dudes and I'm like I'm just a little social worker like that's how I saw myself and so I'm like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing like is this right? I have no idea should I just say yes because I don't want to you know screw up the deal and I want it to go through and so it is a very fine line of like not saying yes but
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (18:46.3)
Hehe
gabrielle (19:04.65)
being a little bit agreeable and sometimes being a little bit aloof and being like, let me get back to you type of a thing and not just agreeing to agree because you don't know what else to do in those moments. So I had to dig deep and find the confident parts of myself and ask them to come forward. And looking at that again with like taking all of that stuff and putting it with my values and how
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (19:08.458)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (19:33.838)
want it to move forward. And I think that can be very difficult for us as therapists because we're relational and we want to make our staff happy and we're worried about our staff and what it's going to look like for them. And I had to think of myself and put myself first and know that if I kept killing myself to make this business profitable and trying to hire people and you know those types of things I didn't have a problem with.
clients that we had too many of, but the hiring was really the stressful part and insurance and just like that kind of thing. And I'm like then what's left? Like I'm killing myself for them. They'll leave the second they get a new job offer and that's fine, good for them. They're totally allowed to do that. So I had to really think about what made sense for me as the owner.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (20:08.65)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (20:26.13)
and that everybody else who worked there has free will and they could stay or they could leave. And I would do the best that I could to vet the buyer. And I think that I did a good job. I met them many, many times. We had many very vulnerable, open, transparent conversations and they really valued my staff, which was important to me. And that's all that I can do. I can't control what happens after.
even though I did stay on and a lot of us do for a year. And so I think that helped quite a bit, but there's just things that are out of my control and I have to think about myself sometimes and that doesn't make me a bad person. It doesn't make me a bad business owner.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (21:09.958)
Yes. Yeah. And I hear, you know, thinking about yourself in making the decision to sell, but also as you were setting boundaries along the way too, and knowing that that's okay.
gabrielle (21:21.02)
Mm-hmm, exactly.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (21:23.926)
So I'm curious because one of the things that you had mentioned is that, you know, you have a specific perspective on this burnout that occurred when you were running your business and also selling the business and you've really chosen a perspective of this is not, this doesn't mean that this was a failure. This was part of my journey and it's a part of your journey that's also leading you.
down a road where you're able to fulfill or pursue some things that were dreams you had from the get-go. And so I'm wondering if you can talk with us, one, about that perspective that you've taken on your experience with burnout, and also how it's led you down a road where you can focus on some dreams you've had all along.
gabrielle (22:12.498)
It was really difficult. I felt a lot of shame both internal and external for selling. And it's interesting because in other industries, people start their businesses to sell them.
gabrielle (23:16.606)
So in our industry, it's seen as like shameful, like I had given up or like, that's not what entrepreneurs do, like you're a failure. And I took a lot of that in and it was hard. I felt ashamed and that made me feel more ashamed, but then, you know, through therapy and.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (23:22.893)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (23:42.978)
coaching and consulting. I was able to switch that to like, no, this is actually a strength. And like for me, it was like a power move. Like, no, I'm done with that. And I can change and I'm going to change and I'm going to move on to the next thing now because this no longer serves me. And so I have been able to see it in that way. But I know
I was just consulting with somebody about this recently and she had the same thing. She's like, I just really struggle with that. I feel like I'm a failure. I'm worried about what my team is going to say. And I just, you know, I have like such a hard time with that and it's all about mindset and shifting your perspective and that actually true entrepreneurs, right? Kind of we do what we need to do to move on. And we know when something isn't.
serving us anymore and I'm not gonna put my time and my energy and everything into something that I don't wanna do and that is actually making me feel physically sick every day because it's not in alignment with me.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (24:54.902)
Well, one, thank you for mentioning the shame, right? I think that that's so important because you had mentioned the feelings that came up and even acknowledging that you felt burned out and then also this feeling of shame over wanting to sell your business. And I think that that's just so important to name and also just to acknowledge that when it shows up, when you have people around you who can.
be outside observers, like you said, therapists, coaches, consultants, mentors, all these other people who are able to give us a different perspective are so valuable. So the other thing that I was wondering is you've kind of used this experience and it's again kind of redirected you back down a road of pursuing things that were dreams from the beginning. So I'm wondering if you can talk with us about some of those dreams that you've
gabrielle (25:29.854)
Yes.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (25:49.439)
kind of found again and some of the new dreams that you're pursuing.
gabrielle (25:54.663)
So, I love this question too, because I'm a big believer like I said, and obviously that's the name of your podcast and like you can have your dream life and we get very caught up in our heads and we get caught up in shoulds and what other people are doing in the comparisons and I love to travel and I remember kind of like probably 2018-2019
you know, I'm late to the game, but I had like started hearing about like digital nomads and I'm like, that's cool. But I could never do that as a therapist. Like you can't do that. And I've learned to never say never. First of all, and second of all, you know, like silver lining of COVID, a lot of people started doing that. And I was able to move to Florida to be closer to my family and closer to the beach, cause that's what I love and leave Denver and still.
you know, manage my team from here. And that's where the first time I was like, okay, that could actually be something that I do. And so now, I mean, I've worked from Costa Rica, I've worked from Belize, I even went to the Cook Islands, which are all the way on the other side of the world near New Zealand. And I wasn't supposed to work there, but there was actually a huge cyclone named Gabrielle that came through and we ended up staying an extra week.
So I was actually working on the beach in Rarotonga and I can do that now because I have created my life in that way and that's kind of what I always wanted was freedom. I wanna be able to work from anywhere and I also have made my travel part of my life. Now I run retreats, now I do speaking engagements or I do trainings in places that I wanna visit and that I find exciting. Like I just went to Savannah, Georgia
last month, I'd never been there before, and somebody invited me to speak at their conference. And I was like, Savannah looks super cute. I would love to be there. And so I've been able to create my life that way. And the other piece too, that I continue to evolve and work on is, I can't make money just doing one-to-one work with people. It is way too draining for me and my nervous system.
gabrielle (28:16.046)
And so now I have created other ways that I can make money. I have online courses, I have an Etsy, content creation, like all of those things are a little bit more, I wouldn't say they're totally passive, but more passive where I don't have to be with somebody for an hour. Or I do things like a training where I am, still my time for an hour or two.
But there's, you know, I did one last month and there was 2,400 people on there. And so I'm able to reach more people and help more people in that hour than if I was just doing therapy with one client. And so that is really how I've been able to shift my focus to create my dream life.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (29:03.398)
I love all of those things. I find them so exciting. I'm sitting here smiling because I just think it's so exciting to hear about what you've been able to do with your traveling and remote work. I just think that sounds so fun.
So one of the things that you mentioned earlier is really, you know, the shift in identity that for years, your practice had been your identity, right? And so of course, if you're going to sell your business, it does feel like this big part of your identity. And so I'm wondering what other parts of your identity have you been growing into and taking on as you have made this transition?
gabrielle (29:44.278)
Oh, really good questions, Melissa. I can't wait to listen to the other episodes of your podcast. So I think that having my business as my entire identity was a problem that I didn't realize, but I kind of grew up in a way, and I think a lot of millennials did, where it was like hustle, like your career is everything, work.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (30:09.821)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (30:11.894)
work, like if you work a lot, you are good. That's what you're supposed to do. And so that's how I always felt was like, yeah, it's like a flex if I'm like working on the weekends. And then again, COVID, I was like, actually it's not. Like I don't wanna be working on the weekends. And even when I travel, like, yeah, some of it is for work, but there needs to be time for play also. So I've had to...
I think, well, one thing that I noticed in the past was that I was definitely more in like a scarcity place, which gets you nowhere. And now I do everything from abundance, that there is more than enough for all of us and for me, and that I don't need to be working in front of my computer to be successful or to be making money. And actually, I make more money and I do more when I have space and lots of downtime because
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (30:46.823)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (31:07.954)
I'm creative and I'm in my rest and digest, safe and connected place of my nervous system. And so I've really leaned into that, which has really also helped me connect to more of my spirituality and sound healing and intuitive coaching and readings that I do as part of my work now too.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (31:31.758)
Yeah, and I love that one. There are so many things that you're saying that are so relatable. And I know that people who are listening to this are going to be like, yep, me too. Been there, done that. And I love hearing about just that lesson of when I step back and I'm having fun and not necessarily working, that I'm able to work better.
gabrielle (31:41.547)
Thank you.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (31:57.97)
And I'm really curious to hear what you think about that. I mean, there are people who like that's part of their marketing. They're like, the more fun I have, the more money I make. And at first I was like, you know, maybe that's just cute for marketing. But the more that I like, I'm really, really doing my own work. I'm also like, nope, that is true. Like that is true. And, you know, since you are offering retreats and, you know, I'm offering one right now as well.
gabrielle (32:06.987)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (32:10.414)
I'm so glad that I'm really, really doing my homework.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (32:28.01)
One of the things that I often hear come up for people is like, no, but I can't take time away from my work. Right? Like, I can't do that. Like, I have to be at the office and I have to be in the hustle and I have to be in the grind. You know, and what you're saying and what I hear some other people saying is actually that's, we have a sense of, we have a sense that working so hard is going to be the thing that helps us be successful and it's going to help our business.
gabrielle (32:32.879)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (32:55.618)
when in fact there's another way to approach our work by stepping away, by relaxing, by doing things that are going to help us access our creativity. And so I'm just wondering how, what, how do you respond when you have people who are really set into this message that many of us have been told that we have to keep on working and that stepping away is not good?
gabrielle (33:23.486)
Yeah, that is a really good point because I hear the same thing from a lot of people also and a lot of people who um are thinking about coming to retreat or have even signed up for my retreat and they're like this is the most time off I've taken and it's like six days and i'm like you need to take more than that first of all Although we're gonna do a lot of work in six days like you need to take time off and I think that
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (33:42.332)
Hehe
gabrielle (33:51.122)
It's hard because this is a message that a lot of us have gotten, but we are like neurologically and physically you need rest and we have this idea in our head that we're not productive. I hate that word or we're lazy. I also hate that word if we're not working and it's like actually you this is
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (33:55.091)
Yeah.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (34:17.873)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (34:20.898)
And if you, you know, again, like, what do you want your perfect life to look like? Do you want it to be that you're in back to back Zoom meetings for 40 hours a week? Is that excite you? Because it doesn't excite me. So, like, you know, again, you can create it to be how you want it to be, because what is living to you? What excites you? It's probably maybe work, but I bet also being with your kids or traveling or being with your dog or painting.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (34:33.231)
Mm-hmm.
gabrielle (34:50.07)
or dancing or whatever it is, like you need to have space for that. And there's lots really lots of research that shows that like when you do take rest and you do things that excite you and make you more creative, you are more successful because you need to be in that flow and in that zone to activate it and to be creative.
and to be in a space where you can be, and you can be open and curious and joyful and in the moment, and not always in a place where you are leading from scarcity or fear or anxiety, because that will lead you down a path of, I shouldn't say not being successful, but it'll lead you down a path of frustration and not being able to...
engage with the world around you.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (35:46.186)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, I love all of this information that you are sharing, and I think that there are so many key points that people are going to be able to take away from this conversation. One of the questions I've been asking everybody is, what is a big dream that you have right now?
gabrielle (36:08.542)
a lot of dreams. I think my biggest one right now is that I really want to continue to work one-to-one less and buy property in Belize or Costa Rica. The long-term goal is the Cook Islands but that's a little bit more difficult and move there and just run retreats.
and just be in the jungle listening to monkeys and toucans and just being more connected to nature and having a slower pace of life.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (36:40.912)
I love it.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (36:50.246)
Yeah, and I love it. And that's one of the things that I love about being able to talk with people on a podcast. And one about dreaming and doing is just to hear all of the really amazing things that people are doing, the really inspiring things that people want to be doing and to know that those things are possible.
gabrielle (37:08.726)
They are possible. And I think I used to get really nervous to say things like that. But when I work with people who are, again, coming from an abundant mindset, and even like this marketing membership that I'm a part of, and I was talking to the woman who like leads it, and I told her, I was like, you know, this is what I wanna do, I just wanna sell courses and like run a couple of retreats a year. And she's like, that's awesome, great, let's do it. And like.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (37:37.459)
That is cool.
gabrielle (37:38.458)
That's the energy that you need in your life. If you have people who are like, there's no way you can do that, they're wrong. You absolutely can create your dream life and it can be whatever the hell you want. If you wanna be the hot rabbi, do it. If you wanna be the hot dog walker, do it.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (37:55.27)
Yes, well, know that I will be watching, cheering you on, and when you get that property, I will be celebrating with you from afar. So I would love, I would absolutely love that. So if people are interested in your work, they wanna reach out, they wanna learn more, how can they find you?
gabrielle (38:07.402)
I'll invite you down.
gabrielle (38:21.122)
Yeah, so I'm pretty easy to find because of my name. So my website is gabr That's where you can contact me if you want business coaching or consulting or training on how to scale or sell your business or burnout prevention using nervous system regulation tools, or if you wanna learn about retreats. And on Instagram, it's at gjvconsulting. And then on LinkedIn, TikTok, YouTube,
Facebook, it's Gabrielle Juliano-Villani. And if you are a therapist or healthcare agency and you need help with Medicare.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (39:03.93)
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here and for sharing with us. It was really great talking with you.
gabrielle (39:10.562)
Thanks again for having me, Melissa.