S01 Ep09: Having the Audacity to Be Your Authentic Self with Rae McDaniel
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If there’s one common struggle I regularly see as a therapist, it’s the challenge of accepting ourselves, believing that who we are is good, and allowing ourselves to be our most authentic selves in the world. Joining me on today’s episode is speaker, author, sex therapist, and entrepreneur, Rae McDaniel (they/them), whose book, Gender Magic, is a practical guide to achieving gender freedom with joy, curiosity, and pleasure for transgender and non-binary individuals, gender explorers, and those who love them.
In this episode, you’ll hear Rae:
• Define the concept of gender freedom
• Talk about why it’s an audacious act to live into our most authentic selves
• Discuss the inner work that we can do to achieve gender freedom
• Identify ways that we can create a greater sense of welcome and acceptance in our physical spaces and in our own behaviorsFollow Rae McDaniel:
Instagram: @theraemcdaniel and @practicalaudacity
Facebook: www.facebook.com/raemcdanielgendermagic
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Melissa Wesner, LCPC (00:04.191)
Hi and welcome back to the Dreaming and Doing Podcast. I am super excited to be here today with Rae McDaniel who is a non-binary speaker, author, therapist, certified sex therapist, coach, and transgender diversity and inclusion educator. Rae helps audiences gain the sheer audacity to be themselves. And I'm really looking forward to hearing more about their book, "Gender Magic," which is a first of its kind book.
Practical guide to achieving gender freedom. Rae, thank you so much for being here.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (00:38.703)
Thank you so much for having me. Excited to be here.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (00:42.271)
So like I said before, we started recording. I was really looking forward to talking with you. I might've mentioned when we first met that my first introduction to you and your work was I was listening to you on the Hello Seven podcast where you were talking about your sex therapy work. I'm also trained in sex therapy and then I heard you speak in Puerto Rico at ROI and afterwards we just happened to be hanging out with some of the same old people. But.
Also, in listening to some of the talks that you've given on the podcast and also at ROI, I've discovered that one of the things you and I share in common is that we both grew up in the church and we both have a connection to puppets of all things.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (01:27.678)
Yes. Yes, I remember this, but we met officially in Puerto Rico. For those of you who don't know me, like I grew up in a very evangelical Southern Baptist missionary family who worked with puppets is like a primary way that we spread the gospel and whatnot. I'm not a religious person anymore, but it's rare to find somebody who had that same kind of.
venn diagram of growing up. So I just remember nerding out and laughing really hard at that very strange fact that we shared with each other.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (02:07.175)
Yeah, it's not too often that it's something that you share or like, you know, put out there openly like, oh yes, I was, you know, on a puppet team or whatever. It's just not one of those things you're sharing all the time.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (02:19.318)
Yeah, no, I don't typically lead with it, though it really is an excellent addition to Two Truths and a Lie. I feel like I have that game down.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (02:22.243)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (02:27.686)
Oh!
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (02:31.783)
I'm gonna have to keep that in mind and stick that one in my back pocket.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (02:36.395)
It's a good one.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (02:37.707)
Yes, well I have so many questions for you. So I'm going to drive, jump right in. So I guess it was last year I heard you talk a little bit about your book and kind of what inspired you to write it and kind of how that journey unfolded. But I'm wondering if for everybody else if you can talk about what inspired you to write your book Gender Magic.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (03:00.79)
Yeah, so my first book, Gender Magic, came out in May of 2023, which I'm super excited about. The paperback is coming out this June, which I'm also really excited about. And it came about because working as a gender and sex therapist and as a queer person myself, I was working with a lot of trans folks. And I started noticing that most of the dialogue, most of the research,
pretty much everything that I was reading was about trans suffering and how hard it is to be a trans person and all of the barriers that there are for trans people. And now we can't ignore that, that is absolutely real, especially given the current political moment that we're in. But what that conversation was missing for me was a discussion of what does it mean to have gender freedom? What does it mean to thrive as a transgender
person or a non-binary person. And I kept looking and looking for the resources and finally got to the point where I was like, well, I'm not exactly seeing the resource that I want, so I'm going to create it. So I developed a model for how I worked with trans folks called the Gender Freedom Model, which got published in an academic journal, which then became the backbone of my first book, "Gender Magic."
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (04:26.99)
creating gender freedom for yourself, whether you are a trans person, a non-binary person, simply questioning, or in addition, cisgender folks, so folks who aren't trans, who just want to bring more intention to how they relate to their own gender in the world.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (04:47.155)
Yes, I love that. And I'm wondering, well, I have lots of questions, but I'm wondering for you, what has it been like to put something so personal out there, right? I think even as therapists, our work can feel so personal. And so writing a book, same thing, right? You're putting something out there that you've committed so much time and energy and care into. What has it been like for you to put something so personal out into the world, both maybe the good,
Not as exciting. How has that been?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (05:19.434)
Oh, such a juicy question. I think I had a lot of practice before gender magic came out, putting my personal information out on the interwebs. So I've always been able to keep this line for myself when it comes to working with clients in therapy or in coaching, where when I'm in the room with somebody and we're working together, that is about them, completely about them.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (05:30.426)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (05:45.474)
Like occasionally I might disclose a little bit of something about myself, but that is so focused on them. And the line that I created was when I'm outside of the therapy room, I feel comfortable sharing so much more about my life. And if my clients see that great, like I don't have a problem with that. It's more of, Hey, you now know this thing about me that, you know, informs how I show up in the room, which also attracted my ideal client to me.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (06:12.925)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (06:15.522)
But when I'm in the room, that focus is not on me. And so I had some practice putting out personal stories on the internet. So I think that kind of prepped me a little bit. The other thing that I am very intentional about in my writing is that I write from a place of therapeutic, not therapy. And what that means to me is that I am not going to share a story that I have not done enough work on that I feel like I have a little bit of distance from it.
So even though I was sharing a lot of vulnerable things and very personal things, those are things that I've worked on in my own therapy for a long time. There are things that I didn't feel necessarily emotionally activated by anymore. And so that creates a distance that I think is really helpful. The other thing is people's reactions to...
me putting out gender magic to me putting even personal stories on say Instagram or something like that and hearing the impact that it has on somebody else that just reminds you of your why. I think one critical mindset that I had to develop is that even when I share things about myself or personal stories, that is not about me. That is a story in service of the message that I am trying to put out there. And so it's
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (07:23.603)
Hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (07:39.978)
It doesn't get as wrapped up in your ego.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (07:43.815)
I love that distinction. And so I'm wondering, knowing kind of the literature that you were seeing available to people before, right? Talking about the struggles and the challenges and the hardships. And you were like, that's not the book I want to write. That's not what this is about. I just imagine that so many people would be like, yes, that's exactly what I want for myself. And I'm wondering how have people received your book?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (08:12.906)
It's so interesting being an author and having people that I've never met, never spoken to send me private messages to say how the book has impacted their life. I try to and this is going to sound maybe like really cheesy and a little woo, but try to stay in the miracle of, wow, like people are being impacted by my work and ways that I.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (08:31.743)
Hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (08:38.026)
you know, in my wildest dreams imagined, but to see that come into reality is something that is really special. And it's something that I try to hold on to. I keep a folder of the things that people send me so that I can look back on it and just see all of it in one place. But it's connected me back to the why of why I do this work, of why I put so much effort and time into creating a resource in a book like Gender Magic.
is to see these reactions. So it's just been amazing and really special and very heartwarming. And there has been more than a few tears, that's for sure.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (09:18.495)
Hmm. Yes, I love that. So your book is about achieving gender freedom. For anyone who's listening and is wondering like what in the world does that even mean? How do you define gender freedom?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (09:34.274)
So gender freedom is the ability to understand, name, and express your gender authentically in the world without fear of shame or violence or pain or suffering. And we know that is something that on a macro level at society, we have a lot of work to do. My work focuses more on that internal sense of...
What does it mean to create gender freedom for yourself, acknowledging all of the systemic barriers that we have, but not staying stuck there? So whether you are trans or non-binary or questioning or cisgender, gender freedom is a term that encompasses all of those identities, because all of us from even before we are born, right? There's research showing that
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (10:11.78)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (10:28.138)
Somebody will talk to a baby in a womb differently if you tell them it is a boy or a girl. So this is something that influences everyone. Gender freedom is about, hey, how do I want to show up in the world? How do I understand who I am when it comes to gender? And how do I want to express that to the world? And that is a valuable question for self growth for everyone.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (10:57.153)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (10:57.214)
and not just trans folks, which is why I also named the introduction of gender magic transition isn't the point because ultimately, it's not it's about creating freedom for ourselves. And ultimately, how do we or what happens like this curiosity of what happens in the world when more people feel that they can show up as themselves without fear or shame?
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (11:05.106)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (11:24.839)
Mm-hmm. And I think that that's such an interesting point because, you know, in my work as a therapist, there are so many people who struggle with being authentic or owning their worth. So many people believe that they are broken or believe that they are unworthy. And your book and the work that you do helps people gain the sheer audacity to be themselves in the world, right? So knowing that just being ourselves sometimes is an audacious act.
But I'm wondering from your perspective if you can talk with us about the audacity of authenticity and why it's so important and why so many people struggle with it.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (12:06.346)
Yes, yes. So we'll be, I love the term audacity and my business is also called practical audacity, my therapy practice. And it's because this word, it has this dual meaning, right? There is this kind of pearl clutching, like how dare they, they have the audacity to do this thing. But there's also this other meaning of it that's much more positive, which is doing what feels authentic.
without regard for other people's opinions. And that, that takes bravery in our world because we are in these systems, whether they, we've talked about that high macro societal system all the way down to the families that we grow up in that expect certain things of us, that expect us to behave in certain ways in order to keep things peaceful and pleasant.
And audacity is saying, I don't actually have to do what others expect of me, that it is actually more important for me to do what is authentic to me. And what does that look like in the world?
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (13:22.007)
Yes, I love that. Which is such an important message, right? How many times are we worried about what other people will think, other people's opinions? And so really being grounded in that sense of doing what is authentic and what is aligned for us. And so I know that you said a lot of your work and your book is about helping people with that, the internal stuff. And I have some questions for you about the external.
if that's all right. And so, you know, obviously there's that internal work, right, of being authentic and allowing ourselves to authentically be ourselves and also the work around gender freedom. And I'm wondering, right, what are the struggles that you see in our communities, organizations, or society overall in accepting other people's...
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (13:52.128)
Absolutely.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (14:18.959)
us authentic selves. When people are like, I'm trying, I'm trying to put myself out there, I'm trying to be authentic and then we see these outside systems that are like, you don't know about that.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (14:30.21)
Oh, such a big question. You know, we can't ignore, like I've said, this current political moment that we're in, and which we're about to see in this next election, one of the linchpin issues is transgender rights. And there are a record number of anti-trans laws that are being passed and being tried to be being passed, especially targeting...
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (14:46.987)
Hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (14:58.19)
transgender children and young adults. So when we're thinking about, well, you know, there's this, for those who are listening, you can't see, but I'm doing like the little elbow, like we should all be authentic and be ourselves. And there is a level of that where we have to take into consideration the barriers that we face in doing that. So not only the targets of trans children, but as
Transgender adults, which is the population that I work with it's still really difficult to in a lot of places To get your name changed to get gender markers changed to be able to access Health care and mental health care that supports you and being who you are Fighting for health care that is given very freely to cisgender people hormone therapy for example
There are a lot of cisgender women who take hormones in order to regulate their system. But if you have somebody that is trans who wants to do the same thing, there's then a burden of proof, if you will. Same thing for a lot of trans-affirming and gender-affirming surgeries or access to simply go to the bathroom.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (16:11.196)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (16:25.258)
not go to family gatherings in Florida because they cannot legally go to the bathroom in a safe way. Because for example, if they are a trans male and they go in the male bathroom, they are at risk of violence, but they can be...
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (16:44.049)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (16:46.454)
Let me back up a little bit. If they go in the women's restroom, which if they haven't changed their gender marker is where they're required to go, there is a threat of violence for a male being in a women's bathroom. They are seen as a threat. It's uncomfortable for pretty much everybody. However, if they go in the men's bathroom, then they are breaking the law and also at a threat of violence. So there are so many things that need to change on the structural level.
including trans people being able to find and maintain employment without risk of discrimination, which if we back up and think about it, is a ridiculous thing to say, that someone could not get a job or be fired from a job simply because of their gender. Yeah, we know that is a reality in so many places. So that's the macro structural.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (17:23.032)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (17:42.346)
I think going down to more community-based and family, there is a lot of struggle with people just simply accepting that someone has a new name or a new set of pronouns, which if we zoom out again, when people get married, the people around them don't have any sort of moral issue or problem adjusting to a new last name, but a-
you know, suddenly somebody is trans and it is just out of the realm of possibility and such a burden to change somebody's name. So there are so many layers to this that keep people feeling stuck and helpless when it comes to really being themselves in the world.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (18:31.943)
Yes, I love those examples that you're providing. I think that it makes it a little bit more concrete, right? When we hear people say, oh, but that's too hard, I can't remember. And then having these reminders that, wait a minute, we adjust all the time, right? Like this is happening in other arenas and we don't complain about it when we have to adjust. And so I love those really practical examples that you're giving.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (18:57.91)
Yep, exactly.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (19:01.151)
So one of the questions that I have for you, I'm very curious to hear. So we both grew up in the church and while church communities, and I'm talking, you know, I'm speaking as someone who grew up in the church, identifies as Christian, but oftentimes we hear church communities talk about how God is love and we need to love one another and it's something that we talk about in these spaces. And at the same time, it's in those…
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (19:07.502)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (19:29.611)
spaces of faith-based communities where people experience judgment and rejection rather than that love and acceptance that we're often talking about. And so I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on how faith-based communities who say that they truly do want to model and practice and show love and acceptance, what are some things that those communities can do to truly show love and acceptance?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (19:59.878)
Ooh, this is a, it's a really, really juicy question. I don't know that I am going to be the person to be able to give a lot of concrete recommendations there. And the reason for that is that I, you know, like we've said, I grew up in this very, very conservative, evangelical environment. And in my experience and in my case, that created a lot of religious trauma for me.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (20:27.635)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (20:28.618)
So engaging with faith communities isn't typically something that I do or feel comfortable with because of my own history with that. Now that said, I know a lot of folks who do incredible work in acceptance in faith communities, a lot of folks who are doing really great work with liturgies and a lot of beautiful examples of faith communities that are accepting
trans and non-binary folks and queer folks. A friend of mine, Kevin Garcia, who wrote Bad Theology Kills is a great resource for that. So I wanna direct people to folks who are really in those communities still who have a bit more nuance and the way that they talk about that. From a 10,000 mile view, I can say that the low hanging fruit means a lot.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (21:07.445)
Hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (21:25.942)
So respecting someone's gender by referring to them as the right gender, referring to them as the name that they give you, referring to them as the pronouns that they give you, even if those pronouns take a little bit of effort for you to get used to, all of those things make a really huge difference. And at its core, I believe that one of the necessary aspects
of creating an affirming and welcoming community is truly accepting and loving those people. And to be frank, not believing that they are going to hell. I think that's kind of a prerequisite and that might feel challenging for a lot of folks in faith communities. And if so, I encourage people to do the work, to look at some of these theologians.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (22:05.938)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (22:19.41)
these scholars who are looking at biblical text from a different angle and considering that maybe the way that we understood them previously might have some gaps or we might be able to expand our understanding a bit in order to be welcoming and affirming of more people.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (22:39.515)
Yeah. So thank you for those resources. This wasn't a question that I had planned. And if you are not comfortable answering, please let me know. You know, so I live in Baltimore area. And I think in general, I think of Maryland as being a little bit more like open-minded as a place. And yeah, one of the things that I have found in just visiting different faith communities is
I hear people say things like, nope, no perfect people allowed here, you know, or talking about love and acceptance. And yet the things that I hear spoken to the congregation do not indicate that there is, that that's across the board, that love and acceptance and welcome is true of everyone. And that sometimes shame and judgment, especially with regard to people who are in the LGBTQ community.
is something that I have seen a lot. And I know at one point in my caseload as a therapist, I would say maybe half of the people on my caseload, and then this was not something that I was like marketing or advertising, but were people who identified as being in the LGBTQ community and also who were people of faith and did not feel comfortable in their faith communities. And so I'm wondering.
if you're open to sharing about the harm that can be done. In those faith communities, I think people in faith communities, leaders or people who attend, think about church, for example, as a place where there's healing, but sometimes it's a place where there's harm done.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (24:22.022)
Yeah, also a really big question. You know, what I can say from my own experience is that it was, it was quite a journey, I think, for me to come out of this place where not only was I in an evangelical family, but I knew nothing else. You know, this was a belief system that I personally subscribed to for quite a while in my younger.
days, I would say up until, you know, maybe a couple years into college when or maybe a little earlier, it's definitely started to unravel in college. But I would say by the time I was a sophomore in college, I was like, ah, something, this isn't feeling right to me anymore. Let me back up and gather my thoughts here. And thank you for asking such a personal question and giving me the permission to opt out.
Hmm, I'm gonna pause for just a second and gather my thoughts on this one.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (25:29.198)
Okay, the cognitive dissonance, I think, that came for me of being told my whole life, like you're saying, like God is a God of love. He forgives you of all your sins. He, you know, you don't have to be perfect. You just have to accept God's love. And on the other side, getting these very explicit messages that gay people were going to hell, that who they were was...
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (25:51.731)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (25:57.606)
not acceptable. And especially trans people were going to hell and who they were is not acceptable and they were an abomination. And seeing in college my LGBT friends coming out and coming out in this really oppressive environment, you know, I went to a very conservative university as well. Most of them had conservative families and seeing the harm that
they experienced and trying to navigate, well, I'm being told that God is a God of love and I'm welcome there, but also being told that who I am is not acceptable and I can't reconcile those two things. That creates a lot of feeling of brokenness. Of I am, I'm trying to strive to be this good person that is acceptable to God, but at my very core of who I am.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (26:35.524)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (26:44.272)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (26:54.67)
things that I have no control over make me unacceptable to God. That is an extremely painful and extremely traumatic place to be. And I think another one of the traumas that comes is that we're taught that, oh, your church family, your church community, there's so much of your social well-being and feeling of belonging that is wrapped up in being a part of a faith.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (27:14.152)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (27:24.174)
community. So when you say, hey, this place like a family that is supposed to love and accepts me unconditionally for who I am says that I cannot be a part fully of this faith community because Who I am is inherently bad That is immensely damaging to people
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (27:24.903)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (27:47.719)
Mm-hmm. Yes. And thank you so much for sharing that, Rae. I really hope that the people who need to hear that will hear it. I'm thinking about my own upbringing in the church, also very conservative, full of puppet teams and this idea of family and community. But I also grew up in an area that was not diverse by any means at all.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (28:05.454)
Hehehe
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (28:13.998)
Same.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (28:15.591)
And so, you know, just knowing that sometimes, one, people don't have exposure to people who are different from them at all, whether we're talking about race, ethnicity, it just was not a diverse area, people didn't have exposure to people from different backgrounds. And I think even if there was like there weren't opportunities maybe for conversation either.
for people to learn about people who are having different lived experiences. There just wasn't a space for that. And so I think even for people who maybe are still in places, communities where there's not a lot of room for conversation or they just don't have a lot of exposure to people from different backgrounds, I'm hoping, you know, that people will hear this experience and say, wow, that's something to consider.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (29:04.942)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I also wanna offer this, because it was my experience and I also have heard this story from so many people. You may think that you don't know any queer or trans people, chances are that you do. And chances are that some of them might be in your congregation. And they are too scared, too scared to tell you who they are. So you may think, oh, this is a later problem, or like,
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (29:19.237)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (29:34.294)
you know, we'll address this later. The truth is that you might need to address it now because you don't know people's full stories or hearts who are right in front of you.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (29:46.387)
Yeah, and I'm thinking about people I know from my own, whether it's school or other who as adults have later on come out. I'm thinking about just that idea of safety, how safe is it? Thinking about the conversations that we have when we think that we are with people who share our background and we're saying things that are actually really harmful, understanding the harm.
that does, you know, the possibility for harm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (30:21.13)
Yeah. And so many stories I hear of, oh, this person said a thing in front of me, and then I shut down a part of myself in response to that, because I didn't feel safe.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (30:32.435)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, so I really appreciate that sharing and I hope that will be helpful and that someone can benefit from that. So I'm wondering, what are some of the ways that people can create physical and emotional spaces that do create a sense of safety, security,
love, welcome, inclusion, that when people enter into those spaces, they just have that feeling of, I know that I'm welcome here. I know that I'm loved. I know that I'm accepted. What are some things that we can do to create more spaces like that?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (31:20.766)
I love this question. And I love it because so many of the things really are low-hanging fruit. So there is a deeper level, which I'll talk about in a second, but on the surface, this low-hanging fruit is that people need to see themselves in your space. You know, for example, at my therapy practice, we have a lot of symbols of queerness there. We have reading material that reflects queer identities.
We have photos on the wall that are diverse and paintings that reflect a diversity of experience and identities, that's important. Having a queer flag in your space is big. Having little ways that you let people know, oh, I see you, even as they are just kind of coming into a physical.
space. That's a really big deal. Other low hanging fruit that I've mentioned is having a way for people to tell you their name and their pronouns and who they are. You know, depending on the environment, if we're talking about therapists, for example, a lot of therapy offices don't have a place to put your preferred name and they have to get your legal name for insurance purposes and for legal purposes. So having a place where people are able to say
this is what I want to be called, these are the pronouns that I use, this is my identity. That goes a really long way. And then obviously respecting those things when somebody tells you that. On a little bit of a deeper level, you know, doing the work to say, if I feel awkward or uncomfortable around this person, what is it in me that is causing that discomfort?
biases might I have that are causing me to feel disconnected, to feel shame, to feel fear. And we know that shame and fear are both disconnectors. So if you're feeling either one of those, there's some work to do around what is it that is blocking me from being able to connect authentically with this person. Another thing, you know, I have a lot of people who come to me and ask me, hey, I have...
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (33:47.614)
a friend, a niece, a nephew, a kiddo who is exploring gender or trans and how do I best support them? And often beyond these basic things that I say is, have you asked them? Have you asked, how can I best support you? What do you need? Because I'm in your corner and I have your back and I'm curious about what that looks like. And everybody's answer might be
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (34:05.863)
Mm-hmm.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (34:16.702)
a little bit different there, but there's a lot that can be gained just from being upfront and even acknowledging, hey, this is new to me. I'm going to do my own work to make sure that I'm getting names and pronouns and identities, right? But tell me what else? How can I show up for you?
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (34:35.271)
Yeah, and I love that question with that added line of, I've got your back, right? Sounds so important.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (34:42.974)
It is. And it's important to say, even if you're afraid you're going to get something wrong.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (34:49.599)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely, which I think so many people are afraid, right? I'm afraid I'm gonna say something wrong and so maybe I just don't say anything.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (35:00.877)
Exactly.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (35:02.839)
Yes. Well, Rae, if there is one thing that you hope people will gain from the message that you are putting out in the world, what would that be?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (35:15.934)
If I could say one thing, it is that I invite whoever is listening to consider that the world is better when all of us get to walk around as our most authentic, most lit up, most audacious selves. Because when that happens, people show up to their lives, to their jobs, to their families, to their friends, to their loved ones, to the causes they care about differently.
and with more presence and more power. And that, that is the world that I wanna create and that is the world that I invite you into to try to create alongside me.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (35:58.859)
And that is beautiful.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (36:00.45)
Thank you.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (36:02.559)
So one question that I'm asking everyone who comes on is, what is a big dream that you have?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (36:10.058)
Oh, so many, right? I'm a big dreamer. With Gender Magic coming out this past year and the paperback coming out in June of this year in 2024, my big dream is that I get this book out and this message out to as many people as humanly possible. So I have a goal of selling 15,000 copies in the next year.
I'm getting there, I'm working my way there, and anything that people can do to share gender magic, to give it to the people that need to hear this message, and do things like review it on Amazon, which helps with that algorithm, helps get me and us to that dream of the world that I just shared.
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (37:04.823)
And so if people are listening and they're like, I wanna get that book, I wanna read more, or I wanna connect with Rae, I wanna find out what Rae is doing, how can they find you, how can they get their hands on your book?
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (37:16.234)
So you can get gender magic anywhere books are sold your local bookstore any of the big chains And you can check me out Instagram is a really good hub You can check me out there at the Rae McDaniel. That's Rae R. Ae on Instagram
Melissa Wesner, LCPC (37:33.715)
Well, thank you again, Rae. I'm so glad to see you again, to reconnect with you, and I just appreciate everything that you've shared with us today.
Rae McDaniel (they/Them) @theraemcdaniel (37:42.134)
Thank you so much for having me. What a great conversation.
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