S01 Ep29: Achieving Your Goals with Healthy Boundaries with Michaela Langley, LGPC

EntrepreneurshipSelf-ImprovementRelationships

May 29

Written By Melissa Wesner

You might be wondering about the connection between setting boundaries and pursuing your dreams, but setting boundaries (with yourself or others) just might be one of the actions you need to take in order to successfully pursue your goals.
In this episode, you’ll learn about:
• The connection between boundaries and pursuing your dreams
• Boundaries you might need to set with yourself or others
• A way to re-think boundaries if you’re afraid that setting boundaries means “being mean.”
Work with Michaela Langley, LGPC:
Start therapy with Michaela (Marylanders only): https://bit.ly/3wVi6wG or 410-497-8451
Have questions about therapy? Check out our private, mini podcast series answering our most frequently asked questions about starting therapy: Starting Therapy Podcast: https://bit.ly/4aldcH5
Resources mentioned in this episode
The Book of Boundaries with Melissa Urban: https://bit.ly/4e2l9nB
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (00:00)
Welcome back to the Dreaming and Doing podcast. I am here today with Michaela Langley, who is a licensed graduate professional counselor at LifeSpring Counseling Services in Maryland. Welcome, Michaela.
Michaela Langley (00:13)
Hi Melissa, so good to be here.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (00:15)
Yeah, so today, Michaela, I know that the topic we're gonna be talking about is one that is really interesting to a lot of people, but it's also a topic that's really difficult for people. So today we are gonna be talking about achieving your goals by having healthy boundaries. So tell me, what do you think makes it so hard for people to set healthy boundaries?
Michaela Langley (00:44)
Yeah, I think what I've noticed in talking with people about what makes boundary setting so hard is a couple different things. One thing that I think people struggle with sometimes is this sense of guilt when we set a boundary with somebody because we don't always get the best reaction from people and then we feel like we did something wrong. So that can be a barrier sometimes, this sense of like unearned guilt that's maybe not needed in that moment.
And I also will hear a little bit about how people feel like boundaries are mean or wrong or not very nice. And that can be a barrier sometimes. But I think when we're working through that, it's really important to think of boundaries as something that are actually super essential to preserving our relationships with people, really essential to meeting our goals, really essential to meeting our dreams and living life without boundaries.
could actually be a lot more detrimental than when we put boundaries in place. It can make our life a lot easier, it can make our relationships a lot easier, and just kind of keep a sense of peace for you and the people around you.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (01:54)
Yeah, and I'm glad you said that a lot of people think that if they set boundaries, then that means that they are mean. And I hear similar variations of that. And so how do you respond when people communicate that belief that it's wrong of me to set a boundary or that means I'm being mean if I set a boundary?
Michaela Langley (02:15)
Yeah, I think it's kind of important to acknowledge where that comes from. I think in a lot of ways, we're really socialized to think that like saying no is mean, setting boundaries with other people are mean. But if we can reframe that, I think that's a really good first step. So understanding that setting boundaries aren't mean, instead, they're self care. Setting boundaries aren't mean, they're kind, right? And Melissa Urban, the co -founder of Whole30 wrote a book called
called the, I can't remember what it's called. We'll have to, I'll let you know later and we can add it to the show notes. But she wrote a book on boundary setting. And one of the phrases in her book that really resonates and I think can be really helpful for people to remember is that boundaries are kind. And they are kind because when we don't have boundaries, what we can notice sometimes is resentment might build in our relationships. We start to feel avoidant of relationships. We start to,
worry and have more anxiety in our relationships and it ends up deteriorating the relationship where if we are able to implement some healthy boundaries even earlier on we can prevent that from happening and you have healthier relationships with the people around you and more satisfying relationships with the people around you and the people around you kind of have some guidelines on how to behave in your relationships and how to have a good relationship with you.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (03:38)
Yeah, now I think that there are times where we are the ones who might need to initiate or establish a boundary, right? And I think in those cases where someone knows that they have to do that, that's when they're like, that sounds, that feels harsh or that feels mean. But I think that there are other occasions where sometimes we are put in awkward situations because some other person has violated one of our boundaries.
And now we are in a position of needing to communicate that you have crossed the line. So we like need to establish a boundary because someone has violated one. And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on handling those situations where someone feels like you put me in a spot, you put me in a position and I don't know, I feel awkward for being here, but also I feel like I need to do something like, but do I do something?
How do you support people in those situations?
Michaela Langley (04:38)
Yeah, I think we absolutely do something.
Because if we don't do anything, we're just communicating that our boundaries aren't super important and you can kind of push through them and it's not really a big deal and we're not really gonna say anything about it and then we're back where we were where we were dealing with resentment and anxiety and avoidance, right? But I do think you're right. I think it's really common where we have the best of intentions. We set a boundary. We do a great job setting our boundary and then it doesn't quite get respected, right?
And that's really common. So I think it's okay and normal to expect that sometimes when we set a boundary, you're gonna have to restate your boundary. And we don't have to be mean when we restate our boundary. We can be.
really kind when we restate our boundary. But I think it's important, one of the most important parts is to restate your boundary, right? So that might look like saying, hey, wait a second, you're talking about that thing that I mentioned that I don't want to talk about. And we can stop it right there. And sometimes that's the only cue that people need to remember, wait, this was a boundary that I'm not supposed to cross. And this person really does mean that because I just crossed it and they're reminding me, right? And that's not mean, that's just a reminder.
I think going in it with the best of, assuming the best of intentions of the person that you're talking to is really important too. Like sometimes maybe they just forgot, right? And that happens. And then another really important part I think to bring up when we're talking about boundaries is when we set up boundary, I think we have to be pretty mindful in the back of our head of like, okay, worst case scenario.
They don't respect my boundary. What am I realistically willing to do to enforce my boundary if I need to? So does that mean I'm willing to remove myself from the conversation? Does that mean I'm willing to physically walk away if this boundary gets crossed that many times? Does that mean I'm willing to quit my job or take a break from this relationship? But I think it's important to identify that so that you...
are able to enforce your boundary if you need to. And I think it's really important to not communicate a consequence that you're not actually prepared to enforce.
But also going into it with the mindset that we don't necessarily need to say
the first time we set a boundary.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (07:02)
Yes, I love that, right? Like, don't say something if you don't mean it.
Michaela Langley (07:08)
Yeah, yeah, yep.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (07:10)
Like I'm thinking about parents. If you do that one more time, you're grounded for life. Well, like, yeah, really.
Michaela Langley (07:17)
Yeah, probably not, probably not. So I think it's important to only say things that we actually have like in our mind. Yep, I could enforce that. I would be comfortable enforcing that and I'm willing to enforce that.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (07:29)
Yes. So as you were talking earlier, I just, I'm like thinking of people that I've spoken to before who might say, but I shouldn't need to tell someone again. I shouldn't need to tell them again about my boundary. What would you say to that?
Michaela Langley (07:46)
Well, when we are communicating boundaries, especially new boundaries that are something that maybe that other person is not used to hearing from us, I think it's important to have a little bit of grace for that other person because in the same way that the boundary maybe is a change in behavior for us, we're kind of maybe asking that person to change their behavior around us a little bit too. So it's something that sometimes both parties have to get used to and that takes a little bit of trial and error.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (08:12)
Yeah. And it's reminding me of the other part, right? Is where, when we're setting a new boundary with somebody else and we are wanting and expecting them to abide by that, I sometimes find that maybe it's also difficult for us to follow our own boundary that we've established with someone. So if someone finds that I'm trying to establish a boundary with someone else, but like I'm having a hard time upholding it on my end, what advice would you give?
for that person.
Michaela Langley (08:42)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. I think it's important to remember, especially when we're setting up new boundaries that, you know, boundaries can be flexible. So we're setting up a boundary right now for our current situation, but we're kind of testing it out too. And maybe we get into this situation where like, actually, this doesn't really fit. Maybe I need to change my boundary a little bit, right? As circumstances change, I think our boundaries can change. As the context changes, I think our boundaries can change.
so we can be flexible.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (09:12)
All right. So that's good to know, right? Because sometimes maybe we can be overly rigid. Sometimes maybe we're not firm enough, but knowing that we can have some fluidity there too, as we need.
Michaela Langley (09:24)
Right, exactly. I think that's really important to remember with boundaries. And that can make them a little bit less intimidating too. Once we set one, it's not like this is it. This is the only boundary I'm going to have in this situation for the rest of all time. This is set in stone. It's not, right? There's some flexibility. Maybe you set a boundary with somebody and they're doing a really good job of respecting it so we can tweak it a little bit.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (09:44)
Yes. So, Michaela I'm wondering, I know one of the things that you've been reflecting on is what is the role that boundaries play in achieving our goals, pursuing our dreams. So talk with us a little bit about how boundaries fit in there.
Michaela Langley (10:01)
Yeah, I think a lot of the time when we are thinking about boundaries, we often think about them in relationships or in comparison or in relationship with other people. So like, do I need to set a boundary in this relationship with somebody else? Or we tend to think about boundaries as relational. But I think boundaries are also really important to have with ourself and we need self boundaries.
And sometimes that looks like figuring out like, okay, what do I, what are my goals in life? What do I wanna achieve today? Or am I getting in my own way in any kind of ways? Like am I waking up in the morning and I've been really saying I wanna wake up in the morning and I wanna exercise. Three out of five days this work week. But I'm waking up in the morning and the first thing I do is I pull out my phone and I lose an hour.
scrolling social media in the morning and I've lost the time that I set aside to work out and that didn't work out for me, right? So that's a good time when maybe we need to take a second and kind of reflect on our own habits and see if there's some boundaries we need to set with ourself so we can kind of achieve our goals, right? Whether it's setting up some new habits, whether it's holding ourself accountable for...
maybe ways that we're making the best use of our time. I think there's a lot of ways that boundaries can be applied to ourselves that can really help us achieve the goals that we've set for ourselves.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (11:27)
Yes, and I'm thinking, well, exercise was one of the things that I was thinking about as you were talking, right? How many times have we said, this is a goal that I have, you know, as a therapist, we always talk about like walking the walk, modeling behavior, right? But how do we hold ourselves accountable to a goal like exercise or self care? And I'm thinking about people who work in universities and have to do research or they have to do writing. And sometimes the challenges carving out
time to do the research, time to do the writing and keeping that time boundary for themselves. And in my experience, sometimes boundaries that we set for ourselves, we're sometimes quick to dismiss them and be like, whatever, it's just me, right? So it doesn't really matter, right? Like it's just my exercise, you know, I'll...
you know, okay, I didn't get my writing time in today. It's fine, it was just an appointment with myself. And sometimes even the way that we talk to ourselves, it's me, I'm allowed to talk to myself that way. So for people who are maybe wanting to set a boundary with themselves, but who are also quick to dismiss the boundary with themselves, how, like what support or encouragement would you give them?
Michaela Langley (12:44)
I think I love, love, love that you brought up self -talk because I think it's vital. And I so much love to encourage people to show up in their own lives and be an active participant in their own lives because if not you, then who, right? So the self -talk that you tell yourself really does matter. It influences what you'll end up doing, your actions, your behaviors, how you're feeling. Those things really matter.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (13:10)
Yes. So what are some tips that you would offer for people who are like, I don't know the first thing about setting healthy boundaries. What are some tips that you would offer?
Michaela Langley (13:23)
Yeah, I think good, well first of all we have to figure out if we need a boundary, right? So some warning signs that maybe might need a boundary is those things that we mentioned a little bit earlier, like I'm starting to feel really anxious, really avoidant, maybe resentful, but angry, burnt out, burnout's a good one, an important one to mention, right? So if we're feeling those things, it's probably a sign that we need to be thinking about setting a boundary. And then the next tip that I would say is really important is getting...
really clear with what our boundary is, right? So like when we're communicating boundaries with other people, we have to be really clear and really direct. So that's not like maybe an eye roll or like a sigh here and there and then being like, yeah, that they can tell they can tell that I'm upset and this is a boundary cross, right? But they can't we have to be really clear and really direct and communicating what we're looking for from people so that they know. So I think being really clear.
noticing when we need a boundary and then also being really mindful of reminding people of our boundaries when we have boundary violations. That's probably top three tips.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (14:31)
Yeah, well, and I love that example that you just gave. Like I could roll my eyes at someone to let them know that I didn't like whatever they did or said, but, and it's making me think about what you said earlier that boundaries are kind, right? And I'm thinking about, okay, like that's a great example, right? Like what is kinder? Is it kinder of me to roll my eyes at someone when they do or say something that I don't like?
Or is it kinder to just say, you know what, I didn't really like that comment. Right? Like one of them is a lot more direct. Right. Right. Which one has more integrity in the relationship? Absolutely. Right. Which one's going to land better and feel better? Like I care about this person rolling my eyes at them or just being upfront.
Michaela Langley (15:04)
Yeah, which one preserves the relationship?
Right, exactly. Yeah, being direct is being kind.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (15:25)
Yes, now I heard you say about resentment a few times that when we start feeling resentful, that sometimes an indicator that we need to set the boundary. Now I have my little line that I give people when I'm talking about resentment and why I think that resentment shows up for people. I'm curious to hear your perspective on why we start to experience resentment.
Michaela Langley (15:32)
Mm -hmm.
I think resentment oftentimes comes from repeated boundary violations, but what you'll often see is that maybe that other party didn't even know the boundary was there. So they're violating these boundaries and violating these boundaries and violating, but they don't know the boundary was there because it was never clearly and directly communicated. So boundaries are definitely not about...
Controlling anybody else. I think that's another reason you'll see that people a bit resistance for boundaries Sometimes I feel like well, I don't want to be controlling and we're not trying to control anybody else That's never the intent with the boundary. The boundary is just stating hey You can do whatever you want to do. This is gonna be my response This is what I'm willing to let into my circle as a response to what you choose to do and If we don't communicate that and that negative behavior keeps happening and happening. We start to grow a little bit resentful. I
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (16:42)
Yes, yes, I love that. And I think about those two parts, right? When someone does something to us repeatedly, maybe they know that there's a boundary and they choose to cross it. Maybe they don't know that the boundary exists. What I often talk with people about with resentment is I might be resentful because I've said yes to something I don't wanna say yes to. Like I have a boundary for myself that maybe someone else would have had no idea about, but...
I said yes to something I didn't want to say yes to. I didn't respect my own boundary that I wanted to set and because I didn't set my own boundary with that person, now I'm resentful of them when sometimes maybe I need to look at myself too.
Michaela Langley (17:24)
Yes.
100 % I completely agree with that. Sometimes we have to look internally and we're like, well, did they know? Did maybe I play a role in kind of letting this happen? Okay, maybe that did happen. Okay, let me figure out how I want to move forward. How can I still change this? Because you can still change it's never too late to set a boundary. I think that's important to remember too. Sometimes we're like, well, I've let this go on and I've let this go on. And how am I going to set a boundary now? Right? But it's still okay. It's never too late to set a boundary. You can say, hey, you know,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (17:42)
Mm -hmm.
Michaela Langley (17:55)
I've really been thinking about this and the more that I've been reflecting on this, it's actually kind of really bothering me and I think this is how I would like to go about it from now on. And that's okay.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (18:03)
Yeah, and I think that those are really great reminders to people that if something has been happening but it's not working for us, we can always say something. We don't have to keep going with it.
Michaela Langley (18:15)
Right, exactly. It can change. Boundaries are flexible. You can change your mind. Life is always changing. You're always changing. Circumstances change. We have to be flexible.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (18:24)
Yes. So talk with me a little bit about why we need boundaries in the first place, like why we need them and some of the barriers that we face in setting them.
Michaela Langley (18:39)
Yeah, I think we need boundaries just as a form of self care, right? We have to have boundaries. They're kind of like the rules of engagement a little bit, right? They communicate to others, like what kind of behaviors we allow in our circle. And other people need to know that so that we can have healthy relationships with them. And they also can kind of help us to figure out.
how to achieve our goals in life, how to best manage our time, how to manage our energy and things like that. And like, I think the main barriers that I hear from people talking about boundaries are the guilt after setting boundaries and this whole like, I think the way that we've just been, especially with women, I think the way that we kind of get socialized to think that it's, you know, it's maybe not nice to say no to people.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (19:29)
Mm -hmm.
Michaela Langley (19:31)
We're supposed to be appeasing, we're supposed to go out of our way and do more and more, and that's just not reasonable. And it's not really a good form of self care. And if we can't set boundaries with anybody and our self care is a little bit too lopsided, then we can't show up as our best self for anybody either.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (19:47)
Yes, and I love those examples. I agree. I think it's really, really hard for women, especially to set boundaries, right? Because especially if it's a self -care boundary, right? Like women might be working full -time jobs, but I still largely carry the responsibility for caring for children and caring for the older people in the family and for maybe cleaning up around the house and then feeling bad for taking time out for themselves or sometimes even spending money on themselves. Like I feel really guilty about that.
and really taking a look at where did that come from? Where is that feeling of guilt coming from? Would I want anyone else to feel guilty for taking care of themselves? Would I want anyone else to feel guilty for setting the same boundary?
Michaela Langley (20:34)
Yeah, I think that's a great point. I think that's a really good tool to use to like, what would you say to your best friend? Like, what do you, what would you think if your best friend was in this situation and they wanted to employ a little bit of self care? What if your best friend was really struggling with setting a boundary? What advice would you give them? Can we apply the same advice to you?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (20:49)
Yes. And I'm kind of talking out loud, you know, talking this out loud. You know, on one hand, we're talking about boundaries that we might need to verbally set with other people. But as we're talking, I'm also thinking about times where maybe we can be setting boundaries without saying a word. Maybe in terms of like how we conduct ourselves, how we carry ourselves, our energy.
our presence and the way that we're showing up. And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that.
Michaela Langley (21:22)
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I think that's so important. I think less is more with boundaries. Like we don't have to over explain and sometimes we don't have to say anything. We can just change our behavior and sometimes just changing our behavior and the way that we engage with people, what we choose to give our time to displays a boundary without even having to communicate verbally what the boundary is. We can just change the way we do things.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (21:46)
Yeah, because the thing that I'm thinking about, and again, not that therapists are complaining, but so many times in the therapy community, like every now and then when people are having like casual conversations, I'll hear people who are therapists say, I don't know what it is, but anytime I leave the house, like to go shopping or if I'm on the bus, like all these people start talking to me, which I always find so interesting because I am a therapist. I don't have this problem. And so I think that...
Michaela Langley (22:12)
Yes, yes, same Melissa, I do not have that problem.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (22:15)
Yeah, and I'm like, that's really interesting. So I don't know, do you have any thoughts on that?
Michaela Langley (22:23)
Yeah, I think that's a good point too. I think sometimes maybe we just in our body language and the way that we communicate with people in ways that we are not even thinking about are not even mindful of can be really like maybe presenting in a way that we're not really realizing that we're presenting. So I think if you're noticing that this is a thing and you're noticing that this is a problem, then maybe it's a sign that we need to start being super intentional.
and how we present ourselves. If we're just going about our day and we're noticing these things are happening, well, what would it look like if we started going about our day and being really intentional in how we're presenting ourselves and being really mindful of the way that we communicate and really focusing on those things and see if it looks a little bit different? Maybe things are happening and you're doing things that you don't even know that you're doing, but if you start being really intentional and you start directing a lot of your energy towards some self -reflection, you might discover some things that you didn't even know were there.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (23:21)
Yes, so for people who are wanting some accountability around boundaries, maybe they want accountability around boundaries that they want to set with other people. Maybe it's a boundary that they want to set for themselves and they want accountability there. What are some recommendations that you have?
Michaela Langley (23:40)
I think sharing your boundaries with other people with your supports, positive supports who are on the same page with you, your therapist, if you're not in therapy, maybe you benefit from therapy, talking about boundaries with a therapist.
I think journaling is another good one. If you like journaling, like writing things down can help hold you accountable. Like what was the thing that I wanted to get done today? What are the steps I need to do to get these things done? What are the things that I need to do to meet my goals and write them down? And then you can check them off and then you have the opportunity to self reflect and you can be like, did I meet this goal? Did I not meet this goal? Did I uphold my personal boundaries with myself today? Maybe I didn't. Do I need to tweak them or do I need to try again tomorrow and be a little bit more mindful?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (24:20)
Yes, perfect. So, Michaela, you know, I ask everybody who joins me, what is your big dream?
Michaela Langley (24:30)
I've done some self -reflecting on this and one of the recurring dreams that I've had over the last several years as a huge lover of Christmas is to eventually own my own Christmas tree farm that is on my list of dreams. Yes.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (24:45)
my goodness.
I absolutely love that Michaela. Love that, love that, love that. And I hope and wish that you get your dream of your Christmas farm. That sounds very Hallmark movie of you.
Michaela Langley (25:02)
yes, that fits.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (25:04)
Well, Michaela, thank you so much for joining me today and talking about boundaries. For anyone who's really enjoyed the conversation with Michaela and is really interested in boundaries, Michaela is accepting new clients at LifeSpring Counseling Services. So if you are a Marylander who has been thinking about therapy, know that Michaela is here to help and I'll be putting Michaela's contact information in the show notes.
So be on the lookout for those. Thank you for joining me today, Michaela
Michaela Langley (25:37)
Thanks so much, Melissa.