S02 Ep02: High Expectations vs. Perfectionism: Recognizing the Ambitious Identity Paradox with Dr. Anne Welsh

EntrepreneurshipSelf-Improvement

Oct 1

Written By Melissa Wesner

Have you ever found that perfectionism prevents you from getting started, or that you’re constantly striving and chasing after the next thing?
Perhaps you’re exhausted, overwhelmed, or burned out, not sure which “thing” is the thing you should be pursuing. Or maybe you care too much about what other people think.
If any of that sounds familiar, you won’t want to miss this episode where I’ll be talking with Dr. Anne Welsh who is a distinguished psychologist & executive coach with a profound affinity for supporting women in leadership, and aiding working parents across diverse career landscapes.
In this episode, you’ll hear Dr. Welsh talk about:
- Common concerns that working people bring up in her coaching and therapy practices
- The Ambitious Identity Paradox and how it impacts our careers and homes
- Balancing high expectations with battling perfectionism
Let’s get started!
Follow Dr. Anne Welsh
Instagram:@dr.welsh.coaching
Website: www.drannewelsh.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/drannewelsh
Free masterclass on battling perfectionism here: www.drannewelsh.com/masterclass
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (00:23)
Hello and welcome to the Dreaming and Doing podcast. I am here today with Dr. Anne Welsh, who's a distinguished psychologist and executive coach with an affinity for supporting women in leadership and aiding working parents across diverse career landscapes. And beginning her career at Harvard, she has since pivoted, dedicating her life to unraveling the interplay between career aspirations, personal fulfillment, and women's mental health throughout the lifespan.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Anne Welsh (00:56)
Of I'm so excited to be here.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (00:58)
I have a lot of questions for you. So you wear these two hats. I mean, you probably wear more than these two, but these are the two that I'm gonna talk about. You wear the hat as a therapist and also as a coach. Talk with me about some of the most common concerns you hear from working people in therapy and in coaching.
Dr. Anne Welsh (01:21)
Yeah, and I think what's interesting, right, is even though I do wear these two hats, a lot of the concerns overlap and maybe the approach is a little bit different. But, you know, I think there are a couple big ones that people come with, and one is some sense of overwhelm, right? And I find that a lot of times it's maybe people who are used to being high achievers and maybe they're used to being able to get everything done, and at some point they start to feel like they can't, and whether that's because they've added
a family and that's made it feel hard, or they've moved into a leadership role and they're trying to still do all of the individual contributor stuff and struggling with adding the layer of management. But that sense of, can't keep up anymore. I kind of feel like I'm drowning as often what brings people in. And relatedly is a sense of failing. Like I'm failing at something, at some piece. it could be like perfectionism showing up. It could be...
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (02:04)
Hmm.
Yes.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (02:18)
an actual failure, right, where there's a skill deficit, whether that's interpersonal skills or, you know, something that they're really struggling with. But these are the two big things that tend to bring people in. And I would say the other kind of common buckets would be feeling alone and feeling really unsupported in some way, whether that's at home or at work, or generally feeling unhappy, feeling like I...
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (02:35)
Hmm. Yes.
Dr. Anne Welsh (02:44)
I got this promotion and I thought it would be the thing that makes me happy and I'm not, and so now what do I do? Or I had these kids and I thought that would be the thing that would make me happy and I'm not, and what's going on? Why isn't it enough?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (02:57)
Yes, I love all of those. Those are things that we've talked about here on the podcast before. They're things that I hear about, one in business circles from other entrepreneurs or things that I hear about in therapy with people. Talk with me about what that looks like as you're helping individuals with those concerns when you have your therapist hat on and what does that look like when you have your coaching hat on?
Dr. Anne Welsh (03:21)
Yeah, this is such an interesting question because I think that the, historically, a lot of times people try to draw these really rigid boundaries between coaching and therapy and suggest that, you know, therapy looks only at the past and coaching looks only at the future. And I don't actually think that's true. That's not how it plays out in practice. And I think if you talk to most therapists and most coaches, they would say, no, we do a little bit of both.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (03:31)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (03:50)
But I, because I think in either case, getting a little bit of an understanding of a why or of historical patterns is helpful to make changes. But I think the difference is that with therapy, we're maybe spending, there's a more of a meandering course, right? Like in therapy, we have time to open up, to explore all sorts of tangents and to take kind of a winding.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (03:58)
Yeah.
Dr. Anne Welsh (04:20)
road to get places and not in that it's slow or distracted, but that we can get into all of the nuance of the why and what happened. And there's a lot of space to process that, like process that emotional weight. And so we are going to probably spend more time in the past for that reason, right? And making sure that feelings that were maybe stuffed down have space and airtime. And so in
Coaching meanwhile, we still are gonna look at those patterns and those whys But we're gonna move more quickly into insight and then what do you want to do about it now? Right. So like what's the step forward and we may stay more focused on whatever brought them into coaching Right. And so I you know, I also say that anything I do as a coach I can actually do as a therapist right therapy can
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (05:00)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (05:13)
can use all that space. And because I have training in both, I do have therapy clients where I will talk about work concerns and leadership skills. The reverse is not true, right? Everything that I do as a therapist, I'm not qualified, if you will, to do as a coach. And so there is also that difference.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (05:28)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, I'm wondering also how do people in your coaching arena, how do they respond to also knowing about your background in mental health? I'm imagining that, I don't know, that people might be excited about that, but I'm just curious what reaction you've received from people who know that that's also part of your background.
Dr. Anne Welsh (05:55)
For me, I see two different kind of categories of responses. One is, that's exactly why I sought you out. I am new to this leadership role and I know that there's some stuff in my background that is impacting my skills as a leader and I want a chance to work with that and your background as a therapist is part of what's bringing me to you specifically. So there's definitely that camp. And then I have another camp that's kind of like great.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (06:01)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (06:25)
I don't really care, right? you know, it's essentially saying if that's helpful, if you bring in more, you know, I think it's more of a like, great, you have that training in behavioral work and cognitive thought processes that I might not access with someone else as a coach that they might not have. But also I don't really care. or I don't want, I have my own therapist, I don't want to do that here, I want some very clear lines. And that's great when that happens too.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (06:56)
Yeah, very interesting. So talk with me. You talk about the ambitious identity paradox. For anyone who's like, what? What is that? I've never heard of that before. Talk with us about what that is.
Dr. Anne Welsh (07:11)
Yeah, well, and they haven't heard about it before because it is my own kind of intellectual baby, if you will, that I've been starting to write on and mull on. I am in the process of working on a book on it. But it's basically the idea. It circles back to what I brought, what I said is a common thing that people bring in, that question of I've achieved this stuff and I'm not happy and I don't understand why. And it's the idea that we're going after the wrong thing. It's not that ambition is bad.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (07:31)
Hmm.
Hmm
Dr. Anne Welsh (07:37)
Right? That is not the message, but it is that the pursuit of external standards and a relentless drive for perfection end up sometimes overshadowing our true values and vision. And then that's what keeps you from achieving what you desire. Right? So you go after kind of blind ambition, perfection, achievement, but they're based on other people's wants. And so the further you chase them, the more out of touch you get with yourself and the more unhappy.
you feel, right? And I think, you know, I do most of my work with women and I think that's a particularly bigger problem for women because there are so many voices out there telling us how we should be and what we should do and how we should go after it. It's kind of constant external noise. And so you end up getting caught in this no -win situation and it
starts to feel very weighty and you start to feel that sensation of nothing I ever do is enough. I can't be happy. I'm just overwhelmed. I'm drowning. And the solution is to take a pause, take a breath and start to unpack those external standards. What am I chasing and who told me to do that and why?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (09:03)
Hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (09:05)
And do I want any of that for real? And that process can be quick and easy or it can be pretty lengthy depending on all sorts of individual variables. It's not like a one size fits all process. But getting really clear on kind of how do I shed some of this external stuff and then figure out what I want, what's in line with my values. What are those values if maybe I've never even thought to ask that question? And then starting to practice making choices in that direction.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (09:34)
Yeah, so I'm wondering two things, but I'll go with the one question first, right? Like concretely, can you give us my examples of things that you see women chasing after? Like society told me I should want X, Y, and Z things. I should strive for these things. And then maybe finding out like, I'm exhausted, I'm overwhelmed. I feel like I'm not meeting the standard. Like what are some of those?
common things that you see women striving for that ultimately aren't bringing happiness or satisfaction.
Dr. Anne Welsh (10:05)
This is a great question. And I feel like I want to put like an asterisk on my answer that says, you know, it could be anything, but, know, one is like, we are so socialized to be people pleasers and to be good girls and to get the A plus, right? That a lot of women I see are just chasing like the next thing, the next rung on whatever career they're after. And at some point it's just about
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (10:19)
Hmm. Hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (10:34)
getting the promotion and not about what you actually want to do. And I think in that case, it can feel kind of scary to look at it because it's like, well, is what I really want to do like just, you know, go live on an island and never work again. And maybe the answer is no, maybe you do like your job, but we need to shift the kind of motivation in there, right? So that's definitely one, like the achievement ladder is a common one.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (10:54)
Hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (11:01)
Another one that even though it's going to sound superficial, I think it's so important is the is the kind of domestic goddess, if you will, right, like the the clean and organized house or the big house or the well furnished and decorated house, right? Like, if I get this right, it makes me a good mom, it makes me a good woman, it makes me a good spouse, right? We almost like
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (11:10)
Yeah
Dr. Anne Welsh (11:27)
I think domesticity with good womanhood and they're not at all the same thing. I was just talking with a client recently and she, was like a light bulb went off when we talked about like, don't have to have like matching guest towels in your like bathroom. This is not a thing that actually matters in the grand scheme of the world.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (11:30)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (11:49)
And it was like so much pressure lifted. Cause it wasn't, mean, it's the towels, but it's the whole thing, right? It was un -grammatic of this much larger pressure. And she's like, look, I've got a kid, know, 18 month old, I'm pregnant, I've got a big job. And those are all really important to me. And actually this other stuff isn't. It's important to like my own mom. It's important to the, you know, idea of what I'm supposed to want, but I actually couldn't care less. So I'm not going to do this anymore.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (11:54)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah, and I love those phrases that you're using of, we've been taught to be good girls or a good woman. What is that? If you had to think of like a type, like what is that standard of the good girl or good woman that you think women have been sold on or brought up on?
Dr. Anne Welsh (12:40)
think there's certainly, there should be a focus. It's kind of like the Barbie speech, right? Be pretty, but don't talk about trying to be pretty. Like, so there's an aesthetic you have to appeal to a certain aesthetic standard, but don't actually voice that that's what you're doing. Be quiet, don't take up space, shrink your ambition, right? I think a lot of times we tell, especially working women and working mothers to get small, right? If you're feeling overwhelmed, just don't work, as opposed to if you're feeling overwhelmed.
Let's figure out what we can outsource or can your spouse take on more, right? Can you take up more space instead and have that be the solution? And then I think there is this other piece.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (13:12)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (13:25)
Stay in line, right? Don't get creative. Just stay kind of homogeneous to what everyone else is doing, particularly as a woman.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (13:34)
Yeah, don't stand out. Yeah, like a cookie cutter.
Dr. Anne Welsh (13:38)
Yes, totally.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (13:40)
Yeah. And what I'm hearing you say is that there's a shift that happens when people go from pursuing something for the sake of pursuing it because someone told me it's worthy of being pursued versus pursuing something because I in fact care about it. That there's a shift when in kind how we feel about things when we're doing it for ourselves because of internal motivation versus this external
motivation or desire to keep up with some standard.
Dr. Anne Welsh (14:12)
Exactly, right? That's what is the difference between, you know, kind of unhealthy striving perfectionism, blind ambition, and kind of truly aligned ambition for you and your needs, right? It's like, where is this coming?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (14:34)
Right, so for anyone who's like, I don't know what I want anymore. And I've had people say that, right? Like I've had women who maybe their children leave the home, they're off to college and they're kind of at a loss. Like, I don't know who I am anymore. I don't know what I like or dislike. I don't have any hobbies. My entire life has been dedicated for maybe the past 18 years to raising my children, making sure that they're happy, feeding them, cleaning the house.
Dr. Anne Welsh (14:40)
Yes.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (15:03)
you know, but now they're leaving and I don't know myself, I guess I'm wondering what is the process that you encourage to help people get back in touch with who they are, what they love, what their dreams are, what their passions are?
Dr. Anne Welsh (15:18)
It's great question. I think, first, I always want to start by validating that. That didn't happen because you did something wrong. That happened because pretty much from the day you were born as a woman, you were told to focus on what other people want. That's part of being female in our culture is other people's needs come first. And you kind of get the leftovers. And so we are very much socialized to turn that.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (15:45)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (15:48)
off entirely. And I think what I tell people is to, know, one of my coaches probably years ago at this point, used the term follow the breadcrumbs of joy, right? So start to tune in in the little ways to what you enjoy. And maybe it is like my cup of coffee in the morning, right? And to practice asking yourself what you want. The example I always use is like, start with what do you want for dinner?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (16:01)
Hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (16:17)
Right? Because how often I know with my kids, it's not, it's like they say they want pizza and I'm like, fine, we'll do pizza because I just don't care enough to have this argument. Right? And we'll have pizza for the 400th night in a row. But maybe I don't want pizza. Maybe I want to, you know, have something different. Maybe I stir fry, whatever it is. Right. And maybe you can't have that in the moment, but even to practice asking, what do I want? It's like an atropete muscle.
and those little spaces of connection to what I want can start to build into something bigger. You don't have to know like what is my next big life goal. It's just what's my next step.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (16:56)
Hmm.
Right. Yeah, because I do think that those are like the big questions that can overwhelm us, right? If I feel like I have to know my big life goal, my purpose, it can be really overwhelming. And I love that line, follow the breadcrumbs of joy. That maybe I don't have to have it all figured out, right? But I can be aware of what would bring me joy in this moment right now, or what things have historically brought me joy.
Dr. Anne Welsh (17:06)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think especially if you're someone that's like achieving oriented or had been kind of a bit of a perfectionist, it feels really foreign to not have a plan or a big goal you're going after. I know that was true for me, right? And that kind of my journey to getting, becoming a psychologist there, you know, from day one of grad school till through, you do an internship and you do a postdoc and I had it all laid out.
This is what I'm doing. And I got to Harvard and I was doing the job I thought I wanted. And it was like, this is not fitting for me as a working parent and I need to do something different. And I didn't say, okay, this is what I'm going to go out and do. I had to just take it one step at a time. It was almost like wading my toe in. Let me try this. Let me play with this and see if I like it. If I don't like it, then I'll do something else. But it requires this element of like playfulness and curiosity.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (18:20)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (18:21)
and leaning into that question of who am I and getting to know yourself little by little.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (18:31)
Yes, love that. So how do you balance high expectations with battling perfectionism? Like I've heard, I think it was Oprah, I've heard her say that there's a difference between striving for excellence and being a perfectionist. So I guess how do you balance that? Like being someone who has high expectations versus being a perfectionist?
Dr. Anne Welsh (18:57)
Yeah, yeah. So I think first we have to define the difference, right? So perfectionism at its heart is about fear, right? It is about fear of a mistake, fear of being found out, fear of not being good enough, fear of, you know, of failing, obviously. And so it doesn't feel good, right? It feels like you're running away from something.
It feels like if you do achieve something, you kind of just move quickly past it, or maybe it feels good for like 30 seconds and then you move on to the next thing, right? It's not, it doesn't feel sustainable. It's that grounding feeling. Healthy striving feels good. It is moving towards a goal. You're excited about it. You're willing to take risks and make mistakes. Healthy striving also allows for rest.
Because if you are striving towards something in a healthy way, you recognize the value of rest in moving forward. So when we start to look at the mentality difference, it makes it a little easier to say, okay, how can I lean into that healthy striving? And so part of that is cultivating a growth mindset, right? Recognizing that, you know, as I always say to my kids, mistakes mean we're learning. That's how we grow. It comes from understanding that
Sometimes good enough is good enough, right? That that 80 % might be all that you need And maybe that varies day to day or project to project It also healthy striving comes with boundaries, right both internal and external an ability to say no But also an ability to say to ourselves. Hey, you need to either rest here or Hey, you need you could push a little bit here. There's some room to challenge yourself. Whatever it is that it comes with that
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (20:26)
Hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (20:53)
awareness that there are decisions that have to be made and that you can make them without worrying about how other people feel about
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (21:03)
Yes.
Yeah, so that's just good for, I guess, for people to think in mind, right? Is this perfectionism? Is this healthy striving? Where am I at? And I think it can take, I don't know, some self -reflection can sometimes be hard to know where you land. As you're talking, I'm thinking about a conversation I literally just had with my partner this past week. And I don't know why, but I had this moment at some point during the day where I was like, I wonder if I'm creating my own stress.
I'm creating my own stress. I'm creating stress unnecessarily. If I were like someone else, like I wouldn't be doing these things that set myself up for so much pressure and stress. And so I said to him and I was like, you know, have you ever considered that I create my own stress? And he just looked at me silently. Like, really? Really? Like, are we just having this moment now? Like,
X number of years into you doing this. So I think that sometimes that can be hard to tease out. Am I engaging in healthy striving versus am I going too hard? Am I putting too much pressure on myself? How do you kind of help people recognize which one is which?
Dr. Anne Welsh (22:29)
I think I will put myself in the category of bouncing between the two, right? Like I was very much a perfectionist and kind of driven by that energy and I found a very better, a much better balance, but there are certain life things that will tip me towards perfectionism, right? When I became a parent, I really flared back up because I cared about the outcomes so much, right? Like I wanted to be the best parent I could possibly be. And guess what? I'm not, like I'm not a perfect parent. None of us are. I mess up.
all the time, every day, ask my kids, right? But I think what I try to encourage people to do and what I do for myself is to follow the energy, right? Is it coming from that fear place? Is it, just, have to get this done because there's no other way and it's getting really rigid, right? Like, does it contract or is it, I'm just so excited about this. I wanna, I don't know, wake up at 5 a and work on it because I'm so excited.
That's a very different feeling. If I'm waking up at 5 a to do something because I'm terrified that it won't get done and the world's gonna fall apart versus I can't wait to do this, same behavior, totally different motivations behind it. And so if we can start to tune inward and recognize that, we can start to lean more into that healthy striving place.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (23:47)
Yeah, which I think can be hard also, know, someone else we talk to you with later on today, we're talking about like when, how to balance when the work that you do is work that you love, right? And I think about that for myself when I am legitimately really excited about some things like that's so exciting. And I'm like riding this wave, this high. And then when it like comes to some of the other things of like implementing all the way, I'm like, my goodness, like.
You were so excited about this when you were having this emotional high and now you're like, that's a lot.
Dr. Anne Welsh (24:25)
I it. I talk about a lot of my clients about FOMO versus mom guilt. Sometimes the teaching, I guess, out there is that we should just say no to things because that's what's going to make our life easier. But that's not where I struggle personally, and it's not where a lot of them struggle. They want to do everything. They want to do it all. It's all really exciting, and there's only so much time in the week or in a day. There's a finite reality.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (24:45)
Mm -hmm. Yes.
Dr. Anne Welsh (24:55)
I, you especially for my parents that I work with, I use the analogy of a toddler who doesn't want to nap, right? And we know if I don't let my, if my kid says, I don't want to nap, I want to go to this playground and play all day, I'm going to have a hot mess on my hands at five o 'clock. It's going to be a disaster, right? And so I have to say, you know, I know you want to do all of the stuff and we still have to rest. And that's true of us as adults too, right? Like you have to take time to rest in between those exciting,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (25:01)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (25:24)
driven moments. And rest doesn't have to be for an adult taking a nap, right? It's kind of plugging into something that feels fueling, whatever that is. But that has to be there as part of the process.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (25:36)
I love that example, right? And that feels so relatable, right? Because that is how toddlers are. They're like, no, I want to keep playing. I want to do this thing. I don't want to sleep. And I think that that, at least for me, right? There are so many things. like, I want to do that. That's exciting. And then the reality is that at some point, you do realize there's a limitation to your energy.
maybe we can't do all of the things or they sounded really good in theory when I put all those things on the calendar and now like the reality of your energy levels are setting in. So I love that example. I think a lot of other people are really going to like that as well.
Dr. Anne Welsh (26:18)
Yeah, I find that I end up using children as examples a lot because they are, right? We can visualize it. We can get in that head space pretty quickly. Even if we don't have a kid, you can envision a toddler meltdown and know the kind of intensity of it.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (26:31)
Yes. Yeah. And that conflict, right? The conflict between I still want to play and I still want to have fun. And also I'm getting tired and cranky.
and I need that rest.
So let me ask you, in terms of perfectionism, right, one of the things that I find, you maybe found this as well with perfectionism, in addition to that fear that you're talking about, I find that perfectionism can also put us in a place of being frozen. on one hand, we're talking about people taking so much action that they're overwhelmed and exhausted.
because I'm striving for perfectionism. need to achieve some outward standard. I need people to see I'm a great mom and I'm doing all the things and I'm excelling in my job. But I also find that sometimes perfectionism can cause us to freeze where we're not taking action in an area that I maybe need to take action like maybe writing a paper, but I'm not because I want it to be perfect like the first time. There's no rough draft. It's gotta be perfect right now. So I'm not doing it. I'm avoiding it.
because I need it to be perfect right now. And I'm wondering if you've seen that come up in your work with people where they're freezing and they're in a place of inaction because of perfectionism. And any thoughts that you have on how people can kind of break out of that to maybe move forward towards a goal rather than just not moving towards a goal because I'm afraid of it not being perfect enough.
Dr. Anne Welsh (28:05)
Yeah, mean, it's what you're describing is the very classic procrastination perfectionism cycle, right? I think we think we don't think about it, about procrastination is coming out of perfectionism, but that's actually so frequently the case. I can't start this thing because the weight of making it perfect makes me want to bury my head in the sand. And, you know, it's funny, I see this happen. have one of my kids is 15 and working on papers for high school.
he'll avoid it. He'll do exactly what you just described. I got to write the perfect sentence and make this paper perfect. I don't want to edit. And so I just won't start it. Right. And so it is, I think, a couple of factors. It is starting to embrace that it's not going to be perfect no matter what you do, which is a big step. But it is also, what are the small steps I can take? Okay. So, you know, in his case, let's start by outlining the paper. Let's put the building blocks in place first.
It's a lot of mindset work around acknowledging that mistakes are okay. And it's also, I think, an important part of procrastination and that hiding and kind of shrinking yourself out of perfectionism is also about recognizing the shame spiral that happens when you make a mistake or when something doesn't go right, or just the procrastination alone, right? So that once you start procrastinating,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (29:26)
Hmm.
Dr. Anne Welsh (29:33)
in order to do the task, you actually have to wade through a mountain of shame around, I'm such a horrible person that I've put this off and I shouldn't have done that. That that emotion in and of itself actually is the reason that you start procrastinating. And so we have to make some space for that and challenge, you know, is that actually true? Are you a horrible person for procrastinating, right? So we have to work with the feeling there in order for them to even get to the task.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (30:00)
Yes. Yeah, because even if we're thinking about this idea of dreaming and doing, right? We're talking about I'm dreaming and I'm doing a lot of things, but maybe I'm not doing the, I don't want to say like the right things, but I'm not doing the things that really align with who I am and what I really want. Or maybe I have a dream and I'm not pursuing it at all because of that perfectionism as well. So I love this idea and I think there are so many people who really identify with feeling like a perfectionist and kind of that
pressure that they feel.
Dr. Anne Welsh (30:32)
Yeah, yeah. You sometimes I use the analogy. I am not a runner. This is like not a thing I do, but I use the analogy of a marathon, right? If your dream is the marathon, it's regardless of that being the dream, you still have to take whatever number of steps you're gonna have to take. And you will finish it if you just take one step at a time eventually. And it doesn't matter if you have to stop and sit down in the middle of the course for two weeks, you'll still finish it. And that's the important piece.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (30:49)
Yes.
Yes, you definitely don't start with the 26 miles first. Yes, great example. So you mentioned you are working on writing a book, you offer therapy services, coaching services, talk with me about where people can find you and how they can connect with you.
Dr. Anne Welsh (31:05)
Right, right.
Yeah, that would be great. So my website is drannwelsch .com. Pretty simple, so you can get information there about my therapy practice if you're in the state of Massachusetts or about my coaching practice anywhere in the country. I do individual coaching. I also have a group coaching program for working mothers called Working Mother's Lifeline. And people can find out more about that on the website. I do consulting with...
organizations around working parent policy. The other places people can find me are LinkedIn. It's just Dr. Anne Walsh on LinkedIn and I'm actually pretty active there. I post a lot about perfectionism and imposter syndrome and people pleasing and working parenthood. And so I always love hanging out on LinkedIn and connecting and talking there. And then I'm also on Instagram. It's dr .walsh .coaching.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (32:08)
And before I let you go, what is a big dream that you have?
Dr. Anne Welsh (32:15)
So mine right now is the book that you mentioned. It was a dream that I didn't even voice out loud for probably a couple of years and it started kind of bubbling up. It was almost like, okay, this is showing up a lot. Maybe I need to pay attention. And I had to really work through a lot of like, but you're not a writer. You could write a scientific paper, but that's not the same as a book. And do you have something to say? All sorts of stuff showed up. But.
I'm in the very early stages now doing the background research, working with a coach to get my proposal is now in the hands of a lot of agents have had some rejection and have to tolerate that, which is hard, but it's part of the process. So that's my big dream. Hopefully get an agent and get a publishing house all in the next year or so. So we'll see TBD if you wanna follow me along, you'll probably hear about it on social and or on my email list too.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (33:04)
Yes!
Yes, very exciting. Well, know that I will be wishing you well as you put that out there and that it lands into the hands of the people who need that. And yes, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Anne Welsh (33:20)
Thank you so much.
It was a great experience. Thanks for having me.