S02 Ep04: Livin’ The Good Life with Joseph Heggins, LPC

EntrepreneurshipSelf-Improvement

Oct 15

Written By Melissa Wesner

In this episode, I speak with Joseph Heggins, LPC, a therapist in Houston, Texas, about what it means to live a good life.
We discuss how the concept of a good life changes over time and varies for different individuals, emphasizing the importance of health, family, and the ability to curate one's own life. We also explore the role of mental health in pursuing a good life.
Joseph shares his decision to continue working in a nine-to-five job instead of solely focusing on his private practice, highlighting the value of routine, predictability, and the ability to educate and support individuals in the mental health system.
Join us as we discuss what the "good life" means for us, and how you can visualize what the "good life" may mean for YOU!
Follow Joseph Heggins, LPC
Website: www.iacch.com
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (00:23)
Welcome back to the Dreaming and Doing podcast. I am here today with Joseph Higgins who is a therapist in Houston, Texas. He has a private practice. He works in managed care and he specializes in working with complex PTSD. He works with couples and he's passionate about serving the BIPOC and LGBT communities. Interestingly and worth noting, he resides with his husband Billy, their 14 -year -old daughter Becky.
and their beloved English bulldog Lulu, which is an adorable name.
Joseph Heggins (01:00)
is snoring in the background. So I hope that we don't pick that up. But I'm also concerned about deliveries coming by. it's either here or bar, anyways, hopefully there is a solution there. So, but she might be snoring in the background.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (01:21)
Yes, well, welcome Joe. That little intro that I just read is like the formal professional bio. I'm gonna give you the real one. So Joe is my very dear friend of many, many, many years. Joe and I have known one another since I was 24 years old and first entering the field of counseling.
We worked together at my very first counseling job. We were both working at the second oldest methadone clinic in the nation. And we worked together there for seven years. And when you worked with other people in that environment, like you really get to know one another. And so over those seven years, we had a group of us who would do potlucks together, rotating at one another's houses. Joe and I decided we're gonna
figure out how to start being runners and have it eventually run marathons together. We eventually started our private practices together, shared our office spaces, and then he did the unthinkable thing, which is he moved far away to Texas, which was terrible. But all that to say,
I think you're going to really love Joe. We're going to be talking today about what it means to live a good life. I know that Joe is the perfect person to have this conversation with because we have had countless conversations about life, what it means to live a good life, to live fully and intentionally. I'm really excited about our conversation.
Even though Joe is an ad -vot podcast consumer, this is his first podcast. Yes, Joe? Your first time being on a podcast.
Joseph Heggins (03:22)
Yes, yes, except one time when we were working at the job we worked together, I was on the local NPR station for, it was for that company, it was for that clinic and our director asked me to go, which was, what do you call it? The station was right behind us, like a couple blocks away.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (03:35)
think I need this.
Joseph Heggins (03:51)
And we were talking about the work we were doing and she couldn't go. So she asked me to go. you know, I always, you know, it was always a goal of mine to get on NPR for something, for some reason. And that kind of, you know, it was our local NPR. So.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (04:10)
So not the first.
Joseph Heggins (04:12)
You know, I'm sure it wasn't even a podcast back then. It was just radio. Just radio.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (04:19)
Well, I'm glad to have you here because I know this is a topic we've talked a lot about. I think it's a topic a lot of people think about. It's like, what does it mean to live a good life? Right? And that's like the question we are forever thinking about, trying to solve, asking if we're doing it right. So I'm wondering for you today, like who you are today, when you think about
what living a good life means for yourself, what does that mean?
Joseph Heggins (04:52)
I'd say, you know, and as you were even asking, introducing the topic and I was like, you know, that has changed. I'll say drastically, but I mean, it definitely has changed over the years. like today for me, like living the good life is like, you have your health, right? Because in your heading out of heading out of my forties, you know, you.
whether it's you or your friends, things start happening, right? And you start thinking, you're like, like you're now at that age. So anyway, so the good life definitely today involves like health and being able to maintain like the ability to maintain good, what do you call it? Like good.
just daily activities that maintain your health. So it also means, not only being, like being with family, but now you're responsible for curating the family. You're not just showing up anymore. So maybe back in the day you might've said like, yeah, being around family, but it's like, now you're responsible. You are responsible for doing that.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (06:05)
Hmm.
Joseph Heggins (06:14)
You know, the good life is being able to, yeah, you know, being able to go on vacation. You definitely vacation differently. And what the good life on vacation today for me is definitely different. You know, today is like, getting up early to climb, you know, possibly climb that mountain, you know. And in my twenties, it was probably not getting up early. It was probably staying up late to go out to, you know,
the entertainment, you know, the nightly entertainment, but being able, you know, but I think consistently being able to do those things regardless.
is I think the good life. Being able to even, I think being able to even have that privilege of thinking, like we're thinking about the good life.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (07:06)
Hmm.
It's an option for us.
Joseph Heggins (07:13)
It's an option. And, but I also think too, and I think, you know, oftentimes we're talking about the good life. Sometimes we're thinking about travel. but I think sometimes you travel and you understand that.
Sometimes people in different cultures have already figured out the good life earlier on. Like they already are where you're realizing you are working towards on their daily routine of life. whether it's like, like the good life is eating well and eating fresh food and having a...
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (07:44)
Yeah.
Joseph Heggins (07:58)
cultivating your relationships with your family, your friends, your neighbors. You know, I think about the blues, you know, we often talk about the blue zones and I'm like, like, that's for me, when I think about the good life, that's a very good example of like what I aspire to, you know, have in my own life. But, and then you travel and you say, people have already kind of been doing this in their life already, you know, like, so anyways, yeah.
Just to begin that conversation, that's the first things that kind of come to mind.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (08:34)
Yeah, and as you're talking, I'm thinking about the story of the Mexican fishermen, right? Like that kind of outlines what, yeah.
Joseph Heggins (08:38)
Yes! Yeah, go ahead, because go ahead, I think I know which one you're talking about, but in case we're not yet.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (08:43)
Yes. And so, yeah, there's a story about like the businessman who goes to like a small village in Mexico and he sees this guy who's like a fisherman, caught some fish. He's like, hey, why don't you do this thing? But basically the thing that he wants him to do is to create this giant enterprise. And he's like, well, why would I do that? He's like, cause then you can, you know, relax and spend time with your family. like that guy's already doing that. Like he's already doing that. He doesn't need to build this big thing to do that. He's doing it now. Like why?
Why do I have to go through all that?
Joseph Heggins (09:15)
You know, and when I think about that, that the fishermen thing, you know, I always think about there's the person that goes, when I hear the story being told, the person goes through it all. They become the boss. They then get the fleet of ships and they do this and they do that. And then they do it all in order to eventually be able to do what they were already doing. know?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (09:37)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, and it makes me think, I remember years ago, because you love TED Talks. So yeah, so you told me about one that I could never find and still haven't watched, but I think you told me there was someone who did a TED Talk. They studied people's experiences at the beginning of a decade and then at the ending. So like, what are some patterns and trends that show up in people's lives when they're early in their 30s and then when they're ending their 30s, early in their 40s?
Joseph Heggins (09:45)
to.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (10:06)
and then late in their 40s, right? The beginning and end of each of those decades. And I'm thinking about that in light of how you've talked about your, what it means to be living a good life for you has shifted, but also this idea of like the Mexican fishermen story, right? Like maybe when you're younger, it's like about ambition and achieving, and then maybe eventually shifting into really settling into and realizing the things that.
are the most important to you and maybe it's not about the striving at all.
Joseph Heggins (10:39)
Yeah, I think it and it is very dynamic and it does change. And I think people, you know, get to participate in life differently at different points in their life. Somebody may early on decide to be ambitious early on, you know, go to school, go through, you know, do the the the the standard thing where you know, when you're young, you go to school and you do this. But some people might be entering that much later in life.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (10:52)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (11:08)
You know, and so it's like, now it's like their opportunity. Like maybe they did the family and all that early on. And so now they're like, you know, kids are out of the house and now I'm ready to go back to school or go to school. Maybe I never had the opportunity and become ambitious because now I'm, that's what I would, how I want to spend, you know, this portion of my life. So I think, you know, the good life is definitely.
different for different people at different times, you know, like for me right now, Good Life is like, like a nice routine and like, you know, homework is, you know, you know, I'm, I'm in my, you know, I'm in my late forties and I am doing, I'm high schooler, you know, whereas a lot of folks in their forties have, kid is already out, like they're out of their house, you know, so they already did that. So now for me, Good Life includes,
You know, like, you know, my, my kids, you know, doing, you know, doing well in school, you know, and we're participating in all of that and like, this is, you know, this is wonderful. This routine is wonderful. But I know that there are people, for some folks that part hat was a long time ago. So.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (12:24)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And what I hear you saying is allowing space for whatever your experience is at a given stage to, know, that it doesn't have to be something you compare my experience to someone else's experience or one person's being right or wrong. It might just depend on whatever's going on in your life at that time.
Joseph Heggins (12:44)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, you like you said earlier, it's like even being able to ask yourself. I mean, I think, you know, a lot of times in therapy, you know, that is what we are asking of people. Like, what is it right now for you? What would be good right now for you? You know, because there is a lot of comparison, a lot of social media, you know, looking at other people living their good lives.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (13:12)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (13:12)
you know, that's curated good lives. And, you know, I know that has a big effect on people and, you know, that just the whole comparison thing. But, you know, working with people and just, you know, working with ourselves and asking ourselves like, right now, what would be good for me right now? What is the good life for me right now?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (13:35)
Yeah. And what I'm thinking about is you're talking about different things for different people. You currently work in managed care, right? So you might be talking to people who, or even visiting hospitals, talking to people who are actively hospitalized or maybe getting discharged from a hospital. But you also have a private practice where you're working with individuals who are probably working in professionals, but they're seeking therapy. So very different places in life.
And I'm wondering as you're talking to people in different life circumstances, what do you find your clients believe is the good life?
Joseph Heggins (14:18)
man, that's such a good question. I do in my nine to five, I am working with folks that are in the hospital. I spend most of my time in hospitals. And so I'm...
working with folks that aren't necessarily asking that question. It's not the priority question. And I think this kind of speaks to mental health, when it, and the privilege. Like if you're able to take care of your mental health and you're managing your mental health, it's possible that you get to ask that question.
And a lot of the folks that I'm working with, they're at a point in their lives where they're having a mental health issue and asking about what's, I mean, you will, as you try to build that relationship, you are asking what are the things that people do enjoy doing. And you do get a sense like when their mental health is being managed, like what's important. And I'm dealing with people from every age. So from.
adults, but from every age. so there's often a lot of similarities in the human experience in terms of what do you like to do and what is this preventing you from doing? And then in my private practice, I think that oftentimes folks that are able to participate in outpatient mental health care
you know, it is something that is kind of a part of the complex because it's usually the part of the why, you know, like you, you know, you have decided to be in therapy. You are actively working on your mental health. And oftentimes it is, you know, it is because like it is standing in the way of that why of, you know, what makes life worth living. And so, you know,
That's a big part of the conversation is, you know, what makes, you know, what is your happiness? You know, what makes life worth living? And so I think that's usually the thread throughout a lot of therapy.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (16:47)
Yeah. So maybe kind of going back to you for a minute. So I guess what everyone who's listening doesn't know is I pulled a little switcheroonie on you like right before the podcast. I was like, Joe, you know, what about if we talk about the fact that you continue to choose to work in a nine to five? I mean, you have your private practice, it's yours. And oftentimes becoming an entrepreneur or having your own business, having your own business full time,
for a lot of people might be the dream or maybe even not the dream, but maybe it's also put on a pedestal a little bit like, that's so wonderful. you've done that. And for you, you have consistently chosen to stay in a nine to five, right? You have the option, like you have a private practice, you could transition to doing that. And yet you don't, even though a lot of people might say, well, that's the dream, right? Like a lot of therapists are like, that's the dream. Again, like,
it's put on a pedestal, right? And I think there's kind of like what you're saying is there's space for everyone's dream to be what their dream is. We don't have to compare or judge. So for you, knowing that that's kind of the backdrop oftentimes for being an entrepreneur or even a therapist, what makes you say, you know what, I don't care if that's the thing a lot of people encourage people to do. I am choosing to stay and enjoy the life
of working a nine to five, not having my own company to manage all the time.
Joseph Heggins (18:22)
Yeah, I think this definitely ties into the good life for me. I think that when you think about the good life and you have to you taken for me, you know, I take into account like my personality and what things make me feel safe. know, like that's important to me, like safety, routine, predictability. Like those are things that I as time has gone on.
Like those are things that I really value. When you have a lot of people depending on you, right? So when you have a family, when you are a caretaker of, you know, we are also like in this household, we are also caretakers because we have both of our, we each have a parent that lives with us that has caretaking needs, right? So I say that to say like,
I enjoy a sense of routine and predictability, but I'm also an ambitious person. I have a marriage of those two parts of my personality. And one of the things is, I feel like having that nine to five feels more predictable to me. It feels more safe to me.
Also, the thing that I miss about when you're working nine to five, oftentimes there's no reward in terms of, what's the word, reward in certain, like if you work harder, you make more, right? That doesn't necessarily happen in a nine to five. I'm trying to think of with the word, there's no incentive, right? And so having a private practice,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (20:05)
Mm -hmm.
Like incentive.
Joseph Heggins (20:17)
allows me that part, right? It kind of scratches that itch that I have to, like, you know, I've always, you know, feel like I've been a really hard worker. I like to put in, you know, but nine of the five doesn't necessarily, you know, reward you for that. But having my own private practice says at whatever point, you know, and it's kind of varied over the years, how much I want to, you know, how many patients I want to see.
But what you put into is kind of what you get out in terms of the amount of patients you want to see. And I can adjust that as my life needs. Because there are times where I, you know, that I'm able to say, you know what, things are feeling really stable. Things are going along. You know, my kid is kind of, you know, everything is stable with school and all that. And maybe she has a lot of extracurricular activities. So she, she isn't needing me as much, you know, at this time.
So it's like, I can increase my caseload, or I can decrease it. So I feel like there's a freedom in that, right? Good life for me is that feeling, is knowing I have that ability to kind of change things as I need to change things. But also knowing I have this very predictable income, I have this very...
predictable income, predictable benefits. So that is important to me.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (21:50)
Yeah, and I think that that's important for people to hear because I mean, definitely in the therapy space, but I think in general, like we can put some things as like, this is more important or more special than something else wherein it's really about what is the thing that's right for me that maybe this thing that society or even a profession puts on a pedestal, like having your own practice, maybe.
is not right for everybody and to like force yourself to do that just because of some expectation or communal belief that that's better than like could end up being bad if it's not done because it's good for me or it's right for me but I'm doing it because I've been told that this is better.
Joseph Heggins (22:35)
You know, I also think about, so often what I'm doing is working with, like my nine to five, right? I'm going to the hospital, you know, the mental health system can be very complicated. And when you are at a very fragile point in your life, having somebody to kind of walk through that with you, explain the different levels of care, the different options that are available in,
you know, once you leave the hospital, having somebody to kind of help you to have to make like when you're with the psychiatrist, when you're with the therapist, like how do we find one that's a good fit? And what happens if one is not a good fit? And then you just, you know, you just stop going maybe. so having, you know, so that's kind of, that's where I come in is that, you know, we're going to follow you at, you know, after your hospital, through your hospitalization, after hospitalization to make sure you understand.
And I think that one of the things, one of the, I'll say itches that it scratches for me is being able to educate folks. So I love doing therapy, for me, let's say like six people, let's say you're seeing six people in a day or five people in a day, for me that would be emotionally a lot.
being able to kind of do this, feels like I'm teaching, where I'm being able to educate people on the mental health system, which I love and I love and I have a passion for. I mean, I think a lot of us in the mental health field love to be able to talk about mental health and education. And so I like being able to do that.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (24:09)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (24:31)
with people and also not necessarily be the one that's going to always be doing the treating, you know, like I, I think that, being able to motivate folks about, you know, engaging in the mental health system, as somebody, you know, as somebody that's inside the mental health system and kind of really knows, you know, knows the ins and outs and being able to, prepare people to have like a successful engagement in that system.
to know who all the different players are. I love that. It's like kind of like a public health education aspect to it. Yeah, I really love that. that part of the job that I'm working at, and I've been there for almost 10 years now. Like you...
you know, again, a privileged thing, being able to be with somebody at that moment in their lives and building trust and then, you know, helping them have a successful episode in the, you know, the mental health system where they might have fallen through the cracks. Yeah, I love that. So in addition to doing therapy, I'm, you know, still being a part of the mental health system, hopefully making it.
work a little better. Yeah, I love that. So good life for me is, you know, knowing what I need, you know, and I don't think I just knew what I would need. But as, you know, being open to say, you know, maybe this combination is really kind of works for me, it kind of works for my personality, you know, it gives me the stability, but it also gives me the ability to
If I want to work harder, there's a reward for that. It gives me the ability to interact and be a part of the mental health system and not always have to be the person providing direct services. I think for me, it kind of gets at everything that I need.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (26:44)
Yeah, the other thing that's popping into my head right now is like for anyone, you sometimes we have these ideas about mental health, who has mental health, and I'm just thinking about anyone listening who could possibly be thinking like, well, I would never be in that position. I would never be the person who gets hospitalized for their mental health, right? You and I both work with people on an outpatient level of care, people who are working professionals, and sometimes
even working professionals who are so busy, so overwhelmed, kind of like doing the rat race, right? There are times where people fantasize about going inpatient and fantasize about being hospitalized because, well, then I must be so sick that it's okay for me to finally take a break, right? Which again, is kind of going back to this idea if that's...
where we are in life. Like I'm fantasizing about being sick or being in a hospital because I feel like that's the only acceptable excuse to take a break. Like not allowed to go away for the weekend, not allowing myself to go on vacation, not allowing myself to take a day off. But again, it goes back to maybe like life not being in alignment with what we actually want to need and maybe not giving ourselves permission to live a life.
the way that we want to and because we don't give ourselves that permission, we can find ourselves in that place. And so just wanting to put that out there for anyone who's like, that could not be me. I would never be in that situation. Like that's not true. Like if we're not doing what we have to do to really check ourselves and say, am I living a life that is healthy, sustainable, that feels in alignment with what I want and need, we can end up there.
Joseph Heggins (28:37)
Yeah, work with folks all the time that's, you know, they have that exact, this is their first time, this may be their first time interacting with the mental health system at all, is at the hospital. know, oftentimes, like we think we have to be so sick, you know, before we enter in like,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (28:52)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (29:05)
in or engage in treatment. That's the only acceptable time. Often when you talk about like folks having that thought, like, you know, I've had many, people in the outpatient say that, right? Where there's just this thought like that would be, that oftentimes is the only time where.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (29:10)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (29:27)
people will say, you know, when you're finally in the hospital, like, I didn't know you needed help. What can we, like now, what can we do to support you? But it wasn't until the hospitalization occurred that we, that might not be asked of that person.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (29:36)
Yeah.
Yes, right, and even that idea, I didn't know, right? Because maybe we were holding it together or it looked like we were holding it together or we weren't being honest with ourselves or honest with other people or maybe downplaying our experiences because you got to keep going. You know, and I always tell people that.
quote that I love is that if you don't listen to your body when it whispers or if you do listen to your body when it whispers, you won't have to hear it scream. And right. What I hear you saying is like they weren't listening to the whispers or even to the regular volume voices in their body. was like, we are screaming now and we are going at a halt.
Joseph Heggins (30:24)
Yeah, just even, think, you know, knowing how to access mental health treatment, you know, if it seems too daunting to do that, like, I mean, it didn't even have to be mental health, right? can lots of different self care kinds of things. Lots of different medical treatments. Lots of, know, we may say like, I can't take off work for that. Or, you know, maybe our job workplaces may not
support that or our lives may not support it just because of the way we have, you know, set up our lives. And so, you know, if it seems too hard, like there's too much friction to enter in the system, then a lot of people don't. And then it's not until you break your leg, right, your mental health leg.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (31:20)
You
Joseph Heggins (31:21)
that like I didn't access services until then, you know, like I, was either too hard to access services or it seemed too hard to navigate the system. you know, oftentimes people kind of know there's a psychiatrist and there's a therapist, or maybe sometimes even, you know, TV has people thinking they're kind of one, one in the same, but either way, a lot of times people just don't even know. Like if I'm, if I need to.
get help for mental health, like who would I even go to? Or they'll say, I go to my psychiatrist, I talk to my psychiatrist, I thought that was, you know, so, which kind of brings me back to my role where, you know, there is a huge education. I mean, I see it time after time after time, like educating people on like the different options available. You'll see like we,
as a society have not done, there's some room left to educate folks on that part. There's a lot of different places to enter the mental health system. And it's not either, I see my therapist or I'm in the hospital. Sometimes that's the two that people know about, but there's a lot in between. so now I'm like, we're like, what are we talking about?
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (32:42)
Yeah, yeah, well, kind of bringing it together, right? Like we're thinking about, you know, sometimes like being where we wanna be might be, I'd love to have my mental health be stable. Like that would be the dream. But, you know, and I'm thinking also like Maslow's hierarchy of needs right now. So where someone like, those are like the really base needs where we need to stabilize.
And keeping in mind that mental health, like regular physical health, fluctuates over time. It's not necessarily static. But if we're thinking about people who are like relatively, you know, in an okay -ish -ish place with their mental well -being, physical health, and who have the luxury of thinking about what does it mean to live the good life, right?
kind of switching to people who are in that zone for a minute. I know you and I have talked a lot about life and what it means to live a good life, the life that we wanna be living and really living life to the fullest. And I know one of the things that we kind of observe in people and reflect on in ourselves is like,
when we would see someone running, when we're like driving in our cars together and we see someone running on the side of the road and we're like, look at them go. That person is out there on a Saturday morning at 8 a being a doer. Like, wow, look at them live in life and being a doer versus maybe what we were trying to not do, which is like just vegging out, sitting on the couch for hours.
watching TV like a potato and really this idea about how do we fully engage with life, maybe rather than going passively, you know, and maybe not really soaking it up. So for you today, what does it mean for you today to be a doer, right? To like fully be an active participant in life. The word I've been hearing you use is a curator of life and
experiences for yourself and your family. What does that mean for you today?
Joseph Heggins (35:10)
I think I would say definitely like routine, in terms of like, you know, we have a routine of, let's say movement and exercise, right? You know, whether that's, you know, kid being in sports or like I have my daily walks and I, you know, have my swim and I have my, you know, resistance training, but
I also like, the good life is like not overdoing any of that. know, not, you know, the good life for me is like, like I've found the right balance, which it's like finding the right balance, you know, being mindful, like that there, I personally have a balance, you know, because, you know, I can get, I can go to the extreme where I can like,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (36:03)
Hehehehehe
Joseph Heggins (36:04)
day and I'm gonna you know but then it's like I'll do something too much you know and then I I'll burn out you know and so knowing like I have found the perfect movement routine for my life right where every day I'm able to do do these things because I'm doing the right amount for my body at this at this time I'm
You know, good life, like I'm eating the way that I'm fueling my body in a way that I know is going to let me feel that's going to make me, it's going to make me feel healthy and will allow me to do these things, you know, that we're, talking about. So, for me, that's absolutely a good life at this, at this point in my life is like, I'm making good food choices consistently. I'm not being,
too harsh on myself, too strict about anything, but just trying to nudge myself into good movement choices, food choices, and then family stuff. Being able to say, always love itinerary. I can make an itinerary, and again, coming back to moderation. Being at this point, I could be like, okay, I would love to...
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (37:21)
I know.
Joseph Heggins (37:32)
Friday from Friday night till Sunday night, I've got, you know, the 20 things that are happening in Houston. And here's what we, you know, the things we're going to do. And that at one point was definitely good, good life for me. But now it's like, okay, I have to take into account everybody's personalities, everybody's energy levels. You know, my kid now being in high school, like she has things now that she, you know, like her own stuff now, you know, so it's not just like,
hurt us, you know, it's just not just us anymore, right. And so growing into that, you know, that life, but finding balance in like our activities that we're going to do, but also being mindful, like I've set up systems where, whether it's in social media or where I know what's available, you know, and I'm really good at this point with being able to kind of see things.
and kind of glean from those like, you know what? That would be perfect. I don't need to, there need to be 20 things for the weekend to feel successful. You know what I mean? It could be just like two really well placed things. And maybe, you know, and also being able to know like, like that, because my family has had a lot of weekends of itineraries, like, you know what? That's probably not a great, great fit. So being able to say,
less probably might be more this weekend. so just knowing that like kind of knowing what the family, the family's health, you know, needs. but also being mindful, like I'm still responsible, you know, and I, I like that responsibility of kind of being on the lookout for things. So you are, you know, being a doer because you can, if you do too much or if you do too little,
get either, you know, either going the extreme or not doing anything and not being a doer at all. And it's like, we never do anything. If I, we occasionally at this point, sprinkle in little things here and there, can, you know, that we can be the doers, you know, we can maintain that. I want to feel that. want, you know, I want to, I want to work out. I want to eat well. I want, but it has to be in balance for me to be living the good life.
otherwise it's not, you know, it feels too extreme, not consistent. but I, I reckon like if we've had this conversation for, you know, 20 years, we had this conversation for 20 years. It really is. It's almost like that is for me. That's kind of what life has been. It has been trying to figure that out, negotiate it not only with myself, but the people that.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (40:20)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (40:27)
are in my circle, trying to find a good balance. And I enjoy that, right? I enjoy trying to put that puzzle together and to recognize that is a puzzle and maybe like that puzzle is life. Like, that's it. Like what I'm doing this Rubik's cube, that's how I feel like thinking in my head at this point. Like as I'm doing that, like, you're living life.
And the fact that you're even doing that, like, that's a good life.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (41:01)
Yeah. Well, and I'm glad that you mentioned the itinerary making because I was absolutely thinking about that. was like, okay, there's this one element that we have not talked about that everyone needs to understand, right? That you are and have been historically, right? Like huge itinerary maker. As I've told you, like whenever Becky starts dating, like whoever is interested in her is really going to have to rise to the occasion because
she has had exposure to, I mean, like masterful itinerary planning. Right, but it is that finding that balance, like you were saying about how to engage in meaningful ways without overdoing it, right? I think probably when you were in Baltimore, they still had like the free fall Baltimore, right, activities, right? Like we were like, okay, what's happening on this night? What's happening on this night?
Joseph Heggins (41:30)
I'm Bye.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (42:00)
And I know on like the dollar days, like I'd have my family come, was like, okay, the aquarium's a dollar today. So is the science center. So we gotta go on the ship and over here and over here. We gotta do all the things. By the end of the day, everyone's cranky because I'm like moving them along, like, okay, come on, we gotta move it along. Like spending too much time here. We gotta get to the other things, right? Whereas like maybe going a little bit slower so everyone can breathe and really.
enjoy that immediate moment maybe would have been better than trying to squeeze in all the things. But I'm also thinking as you're talking about this idea of like curating, I'm also thinking of a statement that I think you said your mom used to say to you, which is like, Christmas doesn't just happen, right?
Joseph Heggins (42:48)
Yes.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (42:50)
It, which is like every Hallmark movie, right? Where like the moms are running away because no one appreciates all these things that I'm doing, right? And now I'm hearing you say, I recognize that I am the curator of these experiences now. Like now it's my turn to intentionally curate people's experiences and learning how to do that in a balanced way.
Joseph Heggins (43:14)
Yeah, yeah. Yes. And, and recognizing for me, like that it like, the ability to do that is I have like, it is the good life. Right? Yes, there is vacations to be had, where that we will, we would traditionally label like, the good life, right. But
being able to curate, being planful and mindful. Being planful and being mindful. My mom was watching Family Guy once and there was a Christmas, she always talks about this because she related so much to it and the mom had a break,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (43:55)
Mm -hmm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (44:12)
had a breakdown at Christmas, you know, because nobody was appreciating everything that she was doing, you know, and like the main line was something like, do you think I just pull this out of my butt? You know, and you know, it doesn't happen like that. And my mom related to that so much because I mean, obviously this is how the caretakers of the family that make things happen, you know, that you can feel you can get there, you know, if you're
you know, you can get there. I think that, yeah, I like being having learned, you know, over time to be planful. Like I totally am. You know, I love being, you know, being planful because, you know, a lot of times, yes, we love experiences that just happen. We love things that just, you know, organically work out. But
In my experience, right? There's planful, there's, you know, it doesn't hurt to be planful. Yeah.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (45:20)
Yeah, and thinking that sometimes the things that look organic have actually been curated. It's just that someone did it so skillfully, right? It's like a gymnast where you're like, ooh, look at that flawless thing. Okay, like they didn't, that just didn't happen. Like they've been practicing, you know? And so sometimes things look effortless, but they look effortless because someone did that skillfully.
Joseph Heggins (45:44)
I just, I was listening to some, somewhere on social media, somebody was talking about, in essence, like the good life. And they were saying how like, when you make this amount of money and you get this much success that, you you buy, you know, this house and this boat and this, you know, all these, you know, things. you know, he was, whatever research he was talking about, he was saying like, there's a, like a happiness, you know.
I don't want to say curve, you know, plateaus or whatnot. And that, you know, he was saying you, would be better off getting like a cleaning person, you know, like that experience, like that is the kind of experience that is more, helps you stay more mindful of like an appreciative of your, you know, like, like this, this feels better than, you know, that car. Eventually that car is not going to, you know, necessarily give you
that feeling and you know, when you buy too many big things at once or whatnot, you know, there, you know, you know, when people do research and on happiness, like it loses its something. but you know, this, this person on was recommending like it's those kinds of experiences, like being able to have your lawn done, being able to have, you know, if you, if you are at that point financially that you're able to do that, like freeing up your freeing up your, your, your time, you know,
giving yourself more time, like that gift of time to be more plan for you, you can do more stuff in your itinerary.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (47:14)
I support all of that.
Yes. Well, I know we're running low on time and I have like three quick questions. They're not quick, but we'll make them quick. One of the things Joe that you and I used to talk about, right? Is like, you know, when we were in our twenties, thirties, you know, like people are getting married, they're having kids, they're buying houses, they're doing all these things. And with each of those things, there's some type of celebration attached to it. Like house warming, baby shower.
Joseph Heggins (47:26)
Okay.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (47:45)
wedding reception, right? There's only celebrations. And I remember one of the things that you would often say is like, I'm not celebrating any of those things, right? But I'm doing a lot of things right in life. Why is nobody celebrating these things, right? So for those people who are like, yeah, why aren't we celebrating these other things in life more often? These other achievements that go unrecognized and unnoticed. What are some things that you think people could be celebrating that
Joseph Heggins (47:59)
to them.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (48:13)
maybe get little to no recognition.
Joseph Heggins (48:16)
I'm without like, I'm not to think about something specific, but I just, think like making good life decisions, right? Where you've made a good life decision that really affects your life, know, affects your life, affects the rest of your life, that we don't celebrate cause maybe it's not a traditional celebration and off the top of my head, I'm like, I know I'm not going to be able to think of anything in this moment, you know,
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (48:27)
Mm
Joseph Heggins (48:45)
I mean, it could be like, you you've made good health decisions. You've gone to the doctor and like you've made great decisions all year. You know, you're doing things. Maybe you've ended a relationship that wasn't the best for you or wasn't a healthy relationship and you ended it. you know, nobody's going to celebrate that.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (48:59)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (49:12)
You know, nobody's going to celebrate that your cholesterol numbers were, you know, because every day you chose to make good healthy food choices, you know, or, you know, you did put together this fantastic itinerary, you know. I can't think of anything life specific off the top of my head that, but I just know there are so many folks making
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (49:28)
Mm -hmm.
Joseph Heggins (49:41)
one, you know, great life decisions that are so impactful to them, right? And the celebration isn't there, you know, and we're not used to the fact that even the fact that I'm not off the top of my head can't think of anything in particular is like, because we're not used to celebrating those things. But, you know, a lot of people are making different decisions about how they're going to live their life now. And non very, you know, could be in
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (49:49)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Joseph Heggins (50:10)
non -traditional ways. And so I think that there's some celebrations to be different, maybe different type of celebrations to be had.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (50:22)
Yes. Well, Joy, have two more questions for you. One, how can people find you and get in touch with you?
Joseph Heggins (50:25)
All right.
probably the best way is through my website, which is individual and couples counseling in Houston, iach .com. It's probably the best way.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (50:46)
And we'll put that in the show notes. And Joe, what is a big dream that you have?
Joseph Heggins (50:52)
Well, I'll just say recently really gotten into cruising. I love that as a form of traveling. I think right now it makes me feel like I'm living my best life for sure. But I think it's an awesome way to travel, see the world, but also kind of, it's like, you you can get to this port, see everything, but you still have this home base, much like my work today where I my private place.
My dream would be, I have a bucket list of cruises that I want to take. a cruise going from Brazil all the way to the other side of South America. So I'd say right now that would be definitely a dream of mine.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (51:43)
Alright Joe, well thanks so much for joining us and for talking with us and for going with me on my quick last minute topic change of what it means to live the good life.
Joseph Heggins (51:52)
You're welcome. My pleasure. Thank you so much.
Melissa Wesner, (she/her) LCPC (51:57)
Thanks, Joe.
Joseph Heggins (51:59)
Bye.